Comments on: Jorge Castañeda is an idiot http://babalublog.com/2009/04/jorge-castaneda-is-an-idiot/ ...an island on the net without a bearded dictator Mon, 13 Feb 2012 12:41:36 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8 hourly 1 By: theCardinal http://babalublog.com/2009/04/jorge-castaneda-is-an-idiot/#comment-95310 theCardinal Mon, 27 Apr 2009 13:38:24 +0000 http://babalublog.com/?p=20578#comment-95310 I'm married to a Mexican and have been exposed to more Mexican thinking than I care to admit. My acceptance of Castaneda is because I basically grade him on a curve. Compared to the rest of the Mexican intelligentsia, with the notable exception of the brilliant writers and thinkers associated with the magazine Letras Libres, Castaneda is a veritable Jose Marti. Granted if he was a gringo he'd be better than Flake/Delahunt, but not by much. I'm married to a Mexican and have been exposed to more Mexican thinking than I care to admit. My acceptance of Castaneda is because I basically grade him on a curve. Compared to the rest of the Mexican intelligentsia, with the notable exception of the brilliant writers and thinkers associated with the magazine Letras Libres, Castaneda is a veritable Jose Marti. Granted if he was a gringo he'd be better than Flake/Delahunt, but not by much.

]]> By: Henry Louis Gomez http://babalublog.com/2009/04/jorge-castaneda-is-an-idiot/#comment-95246 Henry Louis Gomez Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:59:00 +0000 http://babalublog.com/?p=20578#comment-95246 <em>but I also believe that it is possible for some people on the left to sincerely want political freedoms in Cuba.</em> I'm not arguing that point. Nat Hentoff is someone that has my utmost respect. I believe he is against the regime and wants freedom for Cuba. Where you and I differ is on Castañeda. Neither of us can really say what his motivations are. I can only evaluate based on his trajectory and that trajectory is one of an apologist for the revolution and che and by extension fidel. So when he offers up his "advice to free Cuba" and it happens to coincide with fidel's most coveted dream I'm more than a bit skeptical. Jorge Castañeda isn't going to free the Cuban people and neither is the tactic he suggests. So he's irrelevant in my opinion. but I also believe that it is possible for some people on the left to sincerely want political freedoms in Cuba.

I'm not arguing that point. Nat Hentoff is someone that has my utmost respect. I believe he is against the regime and wants freedom for Cuba. Where you and I differ is on Castañeda. Neither of us can really say what his motivations are. I can only evaluate based on his trajectory and that trajectory is one of an apologist for the revolution and che and by extension fidel. So when he offers up his "advice to free Cuba" and it happens to coincide with fidel's most coveted dream I'm more than a bit skeptical. Jorge Castañeda isn't going to free the Cuban people and neither is the tactic he suggests. So he's irrelevant in my opinion.

]]> By: theCardinal http://babalublog.com/2009/04/jorge-castaneda-is-an-idiot/#comment-95244 theCardinal Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:03:54 +0000 http://babalublog.com/?p=20578#comment-95244 too late to respond I know but just noticed. I do believe in worthless apologists (CBC, Jeff Flake, Delahunt, NCC, et al) and in shills for the regime (Peters) but I also believe that it is possible for some people on the left to sincerely want political freedoms in Cuba. I confess that I am a big tent kind of person. We had very few people in the Mexican establishment that even cared about Cuba and yes I am grateful that he did push for human rights. Of course he is not going to go as far as you or even I want because he is of the Mexican establshment. I apologize for responding because I know this is one of those discussions we wont see eye to eye. too late to respond I know but just noticed. I do believe in worthless apologists (CBC, Jeff Flake, Delahunt, NCC, et al) and in shills for the regime (Peters) but I also believe that it is possible for some people on the left to sincerely want political freedoms in Cuba. I confess that I am a big tent kind of person. We had very few people in the Mexican establishment that even cared about Cuba and yes I am grateful that he did push for human rights. Of course he is not going to go as far as you or even I want because he is of the Mexican establshment.

I apologize for responding because I know this is one of those discussions we wont see eye to eye.

]]> By: Henry Louis Gomez http://babalublog.com/2009/04/jorge-castaneda-is-an-idiot/#comment-95084 Henry Louis Gomez Tue, 21 Apr 2009 19:49:42 +0000 http://babalublog.com/?p=20578#comment-95084 Cardinal. Maybe I'm not articulating it properly but I just don't buy the 'he wants to hold the left accountable' argument. Its bullshit. Its the tactic of the day. For us the embargo is not and ends unto itself. We agree. But for the regime its removal is ends unto itself. And what castañeda and others like marifea are saying is that we can have our ends (freedom for cuba) by giving castro his ends (lifting the embargo). What kind of fucking sense does that make? Yes, we have to look at the messengers of these 'reasonable' tactics and when you dig you see that they are all dirty. Phil peters is doing it for money, marifea is a sympathizer of the regime if not an agent. This castaneda is a fucking apologist. In a court of law they would not have any credibility because of their past statements and associations. Yet you want to give this Mexican prick cocksucker the benefit of the doubt? I just can't believe that otherwise intelligent people fall for this horseshit. Are you kidding me? Cardinal. Maybe I'm not articulating it properly but I just don't buy the 'he wants to hold the left accountable' argument. Its bullshit. Its the tactic of the day. For us the embargo is not and ends unto itself. We agree. But for the regime its removal is ends unto itself.

And what castañeda and others like marifea are saying is that we can have our ends (freedom for cuba) by giving castro his ends (lifting the embargo). What kind of fucking sense does that make? Yes, we have to look at the messengers of these 'reasonable' tactics and when you dig you see that they are all dirty. Phil peters is doing it for money, marifea is a sympathizer of the regime if not an agent. This castaneda is a fucking apologist. In a court of law they would not have any credibility because of their past statements and associations. Yet you want to give this Mexican prick cocksucker the benefit of the doubt?

I just can't believe that otherwise intelligent people fall for this horseshit. Are you kidding me?

]]> By: theCardinal http://babalublog.com/2009/04/jorge-castaneda-is-an-idiot/#comment-95078 theCardinal Tue, 21 Apr 2009 18:12:55 +0000 http://babalublog.com/?p=20578#comment-95078 Humberto did not make up the quotes and Castaneda is not above reproach. I did not say that I either agreed with the book as a whole or his stance on the embargo. Does he want what Castro wants once it comes to the embargo, yes. The difference is that is all Castro Inc wants and not Castaneda. He still want to hold the left accountable and push for change. I know this is where we often disagree, but the embargo is not the end all and be all in terms of bringing change to Cuba. I have to repeat that the worst possible option is a unilateral change on our part - a position I oppose so vehemently that I would prefer the embargo to stay in place as is rather than see that happen. So yes, it is possible for me to agree with you every now and again. Humberto did not make up the quotes and Castaneda is not above reproach. I did not say that I either agreed with the book as a whole or his stance on the embargo.

Does he want what Castro wants once it comes to the embargo, yes. The difference is that is all Castro Inc wants and not Castaneda. He still want to hold the left accountable and push for change. I know this is where we often disagree, but the embargo is not the end all and be all in terms of bringing change to Cuba. I have to repeat that the worst possible option is a unilateral change on our part - a position I oppose so vehemently that I would prefer the embargo to stay in place as is rather than see that happen. So yes, it is possible for me to agree with you every now and again.

]]> By: Henry Louis Gomez http://babalublog.com/2009/04/jorge-castaneda-is-an-idiot/#comment-95074 Henry Louis Gomez Tue, 21 Apr 2009 17:46:27 +0000 http://babalublog.com/?p=20578#comment-95074 I don't agree with the premise that castañeda wants what we want. He wants what castro wants. A removal of the embargo with no strings attached. Have you not realized yet that the regime uses many different people attacking the embargo from so many 'reasonable' angles? Do you really believe that an apologist for fidel and che can have such a stunning turnaround? And if so what a coincidence that he wants the same exact policy that the regime wants. And I'm to believe its because thinks it will bring about change? Not buying it, sorry guys. I don't agree with the premise that castañeda wants what we want. He wants what castro wants. A removal of the embargo with no strings attached. Have you not realized yet that the regime uses many different people attacking the embargo from so many 'reasonable' angles? Do you really believe that an apologist for fidel and che can have such a stunning turnaround? And if so what a coincidence that he wants the same exact policy that the regime wants. And I'm to believe its because thinks it will bring about change? Not buying it, sorry guys.

]]> By: Robert Molleda http://babalublog.com/2009/04/jorge-castaneda-is-an-idiot/#comment-95071 Robert Molleda Tue, 21 Apr 2009 17:17:32 +0000 http://babalublog.com/?p=20578#comment-95071 Castañeda's quotes from his Che book are unforgivable, IMO. However, the spirit of theCardinal's comment is important to consider. I don't agree with Castañeda's premise that we open up and then wait for the outpouring of support. As I said above, it's naive at best. However, he's one of the few people I've heard or read who doesn't advocate a hard line policy that actually recognizes the utter lack of principles shown by many Latin American leaders...and the fact that this lack of support on the part of our neighbors has not helped our cause. Too often, we as a collective group demand that people be perfectly consistent in their thoughts, values and opinions. While that's a noble goal to strive for, it's not reflective of reality. Castañeda is probably not the type of person to reach out to, but there are many folks who don't advocate the hard line - but also don't have the "Che baggage" Castañeda has, that want the same results we do. Remember, many dissidents don't see eye to eye with us on Cuba policy. These are the folks we need to encourage and foster intelligent discussion and spirited debate with - not drive away. IMVHO. Castañeda's quotes from his Che book are unforgivable, IMO. However, the spirit of theCardinal's comment is important to consider. I don't agree with Castañeda's premise that we open up and then wait for the outpouring of support. As I said above, it's naive at best. However, he's one of the few people I've heard or read who doesn't advocate a hard line policy that actually recognizes the utter lack of principles shown by many Latin American leaders...and the fact that this lack of support on the part of our neighbors has not helped our cause. Too often, we as a collective group demand that people be perfectly consistent in their thoughts, values and opinions. While that's a noble goal to strive for, it's not reflective of reality. Castañeda is probably not the type of person to reach out to, but there are many folks who don't advocate the hard line - but also don't have the "Che baggage" Castañeda has, that want the same results we do. Remember, many dissidents don't see eye to eye with us on Cuba policy. These are the folks we need to encourage and foster intelligent discussion and spirited debate with - not drive away. IMVHO.

]]> By: Henry Louis Gomez http://babalublog.com/2009/04/jorge-castaneda-is-an-idiot/#comment-95067 Henry Louis Gomez Tue, 21 Apr 2009 16:43:57 +0000 http://babalublog.com/?p=20578#comment-95067 <em>You're not being totally fair to Castañeda.</em> He can sue me. And Humberto didn't make up those quotes. Castañeda is an idiot. You're not being totally fair to Castañeda.

He can sue me.

And Humberto didn't make up those quotes. Castañeda is an idiot.

]]> By: theCardinal http://babalublog.com/2009/04/jorge-castaneda-is-an-idiot/#comment-95057 theCardinal Tue, 21 Apr 2009 13:44:48 +0000 http://babalublog.com/?p=20578#comment-95057 You're not being totally fair to Castañeda. First of all he was the only Mexican leader who tried to hold Cuba's feet to the fire. He took a great deal of heat for introducing human rights talk when dealing with Cuba. Just look at the difference with how Calderon is handling the Castros now. In addition his book on Che, while fawning at points is one of the few that portrays warts along with the b.s. The best evidence of the his standing with the Castros is that I don't believe that he is allowed to go back - usually a pretty good sign that he's ticked them off. They even tried to embarass him by pointing out that in his youth he had been quite the avid supporter of the Revolution. Castañeda wants the same thing we want - he just has a different idea of how to get there. If you're Catholic to you refer to Methodists as "idiots"? Do you say the same for Jews? We all want to go to the same place - just have different ideas to get there. Lets discuss our differences and work together to bring that change we all want. Calling someone an idiot who basically on your side does our cause no good. I don't agree with the op-ed, but I am thrilled to know that at least one person from Mexico gives a crap about Cuba. You're not being totally fair to Castañeda. First of all he was the only Mexican leader who tried to hold Cuba's feet to the fire. He took a great deal of heat for introducing human rights talk when dealing with Cuba. Just look at the difference with how Calderon is handling the Castros now. In addition his book on Che, while fawning at points is one of the few that portrays warts along with the b.s. The best evidence of the his standing with the Castros is that I don't believe that he is allowed to go back - usually a pretty good sign that he's ticked them off. They even tried to embarass him by pointing out that in his youth he had been quite the avid supporter of the Revolution.

Castañeda wants the same thing we want - he just has a different idea of how to get there. If you're Catholic to you refer to Methodists as "idiots"? Do you say the same for Jews? We all want to go to the same place - just have different ideas to get there. Lets discuss our differences and work together to bring that change we all want. Calling someone an idiot who basically on your side does our cause no good.

I don't agree with the op-ed, but I am thrilled to know that at least one person from Mexico gives a crap about Cuba.

]]> By: Robert Molleda http://babalublog.com/2009/04/jorge-castaneda-is-an-idiot/#comment-95056 Robert Molleda Tue, 21 Apr 2009 11:35:09 +0000 http://babalublog.com/?p=20578#comment-95056 Castañeda was right to call out Lula, Bachelet, et.al. as spineless sellouts. Good for him there. But his belief that by unilaterally opening up to Cuba, Latin America will all of a sudden clamor for human rights in Cuba is incredibly naive. Castañeda was right to call out Lula, Bachelet, et.al. as spineless sellouts. Good for him there. But his belief that by unilaterally opening up to Cuba, Latin America will all of a sudden clamor for human rights in Cuba is incredibly naive.

]]> By: Honey http://babalublog.com/2009/04/jorge-castaneda-is-an-idiot/#comment-95048 Honey Tue, 21 Apr 2009 04:01:35 +0000 http://babalublog.com/?p=20578#comment-95048 But we can at least take heart that when I spoke to the tea party group in Sarasota, Florida and said I didn't want the embargo lifted, I got a rousing cheering ovation of approval for what I said. There are some on the right side. But we can at least take heart that when I spoke to the tea party group in Sarasota, Florida and said I didn't want the embargo lifted, I got a rousing cheering ovation of approval for what I said. There are some on the right side.

]]> By: Humberto Fontova http://babalublog.com/2009/04/jorge-castaneda-is-an-idiot/#comment-95045 Humberto Fontova Tue, 21 Apr 2009 01:30:02 +0000 http://babalublog.com/?p=20578#comment-95045 "Innocent people were not executed in significant numbers, (by Castro and Che)" Jorge Castaneda "It is surprising that there were so few abuses and executions (by Castro and Che)." Jorge Castaneda. "Che's military leadership was permeated by an indomitable will that permitted extraordinary feats," Jorge Castaneda Che presented a Christlike image, with his mortuary gaze it is as if Guevara looks upon his killers and forgives them." Jorge Castaneda. Folks, these are the type of authorities the "conservatvie" WSJ employs for commentary on Cuba! Regarding a historical issue, has there ever existed a lonelier and more maligned bunch......than us? Unreal. "Innocent people were not executed in significant numbers, (by Castro and Che)" Jorge Castaneda

"It is surprising that there were so few abuses and executions (by Castro and Che)." Jorge Castaneda.

"Che's military leadership was permeated by an indomitable will that permitted extraordinary feats," Jorge Castaneda

Che presented a Christlike image, with his mortuary gaze it is as if Guevara looks upon his killers and forgives them."
Jorge Castaneda.

Folks, these are the type of authorities the "conservatvie" WSJ employs for commentary on Cuba!

Regarding a historical issue, has there ever existed a lonelier and more maligned bunch......than us?

Unreal.

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