The castro regime wants open economic relations with the US, Cuban-American “moderates” want to open economic relations with Cuba. Hard-liners want to see Cuba make certain basic concessions in the area of human rights, property rights, and the acknowledgment of debts stemming from unlawful expropriations before giving Cuba the carrot of economic relations.
The castro regime wants US tourism, Cuban-American “moderates” want to lift the travel restrictions to Cuba. Hard-liners don’t want to enable the tourist apartheid and believe that if you left Cuba and availed yourself of the opportunity to come to America for political reasons that it’s not right to return before those political conditions, that caused you to leave, change.
The castro regime wants its people to receive unlimited remittances from those they once called gusanos, Cuban-American “moderates” want to eliminate the limits of remittances to Cuba. Hard-liners want to deprive the regime of hard currency that it uses for its repressive machinery and for funding subversion beyond its borders.
The castro regime wants to see a change in US policy because it hasn’t worked in 50 years, Cuban-American “moderates” want to see a change in US policy because it hasn’t worked in 50 years. Hard-liners want to see a change in Cuba’s policy because it hasn’t worked in 50 years.
Are you a moderate?
I have been a moderate ever since the DGI cut me off. I promote the Vietnamese and Chinese economic models for Cuba. Just read about it in my columns in the Miami Herald. I love making a living from this. Dialogue anyone?
Leftists always like to call themselves “moderates.”
I have also taken a moderate position after the failure of the dialogue with Castro 30 years ago. As the world’s greatest economist on Cuba (read all my award-winning books) I also favor the Chinese and Vietnamese economic models for Cuba. Just look at me now, I am so fabulous.
Dialogue? Marifea, here I am again, ready to renew fame and fortune for the sake of dialogue with the Castro regime. If we can’t work that out, let’s start a dialogue with Hamas or Iran. I volunteer you to go over there first, and start the “people to people” contacts. Don’t forget your burka.
Put me down as a moderate. The failed “Plan A” Embargo has not worked and will not work.
By the way, I am a registered Republican in Massachusetts. Go figure.
Havanajournal,
How would you change things? As far as I know, the lifting of the embargo would only enable the Cuban government to do business freely with the US and on credit to boot. How would that change the lives of the Cubans on the island, as they will still not be able to do business with foreigners or own their own businesses? Not to mention all the other things that that government has not done in order to try to have the embargo lifted.
Lori there is no Plan B. These people are a combination of wishful thinkers (let’s be nice and concede to the bad guys and maybe they will be nice too) and collaborators. Notice that the there’s no “moderate” committee for a free Cuba. There’s no plan. By the way the embargo is not plan A in my opinion. Plan A is to put all of the clauses of Helms Burton into effect, put a lot more pressure on other countries to not do business with the regime etc. If we are going to get the blame for strangling Cuba we might as well do it and be done with it.
These people want give up what little leverage we have in the final half mile of the marathon.
Smart. For fidel and his cronies.
Lori there is no Plan B. These people are a combination of wishful thinkers (let’s be nice and concede to the bad guys and maybe they will be nice too) and collaborators. Notice that the there’s no “moderate” committee for a free Cuba. There’s no plan. By the way the embargo is not plan A in my opinion. Plan A is to put all of the clauses of Helms Burton into effect, put a lot more pressure on other countries to not do business with the regime etc. If we are going to get the blame for strangling Cuba we might as well do it and be done with it.
These people want give up what little leverage we have in the final half mile of the marathon.
Smart. For fidel and his cronies.
Lori there is no Plan B. These people are a combination of wishful thinkers (let’s be nice and concede to the bad guys and maybe they will be nice too) and collaborators. Notice that the there’s no “moderate” committee for a free Cuba. There’s no plan. By the way the embargo is not plan A in my opinion. Plan A is to put all of the clauses of Helms Burton into effect, put a lot more pressure on other countries to not do business with the regime etc. If we are going to get the blame for strangling Cuba we might as well do it and be done with it.
These people want give up what little leverage we have in the final half mile of the marathon.
Smart. For fidel and his cronies.
Lori there is no Plan B. These people are a combination of wishful thinkers (let’s be nice and concede to the bad guys and maybe they will be nice too) and collaborators. Notice that the there’s no “moderate” committee for a free Cuba. There’s no plan. By the way the embargo is not plan A in my opinion. Plan A is to put all of the clauses of Helms Burton into effect, put a lot more pressure on other countries to not do business with the regime etc. If we are going to get the blame for strangling Cuba we might as well do it and be done with it.
These people want give up what little leverage we have in the final half mile of the marathon.
Smart. For fidel and his cronies.
I’m against the “embargo” too. The “embargo” as it currently stands, that is.
How about trying a REAL embargo? That would be change as well. If we’re not willing to totally seal off Cuba, then we might as well open up the whole damned thing.
The thing is that there’s plenty of “let’s lift the embargo” myopics out there, BUT NOT A SINGLE ONE CAN OFFER UP A BLAN FUCKING B.
When it comes to Cuba… I’m an intransigent, inflexible, obdurate, stubborn, uncompromising, unyielding, narrow-minded, forceful, insistent, persevering, unrelenting, unchangeable, firm, hard-lined Cuban-American.
I’m a hardline redneck.
I might have been in favor of the idea of letting the capitalism camel’s nose under the tent by lifting the embargo, but there is no embargo from Europe, they trade with Cuba freely, and that camel’s nose hasn’t done anything.
This is in part because Cuba appears to me at least to be more of a plain ol’ fashioned tin pot dictatorship, driven much more by a cult of personality and blame-America-ism than a true-blue (excuse me, true-red) ideological attachment to communism. So they can take some level of infusion of capitalist income without collapsing.
So lifting the embargo won’t help.
Keeping it in place isn’t going to bring the regime down, but somebody in this world has to stand up and say, even if just symbolically in this way, that the Castro regime is an arm of the devil, and we will not dance with him. Lefties think you can dance with the devil and change him. But you don’t change him, he changes you…
Plan B: Start dialog with the regime, if there is no progress everything stays, but we always have to be proactive and provide the avenue of talks, when the reds make a move we could them provide concessions, is stupid to think that the embargo afects the structure of power, this is only one country not trading with Cuba. Everybody else does business as usual (canada, MEXICO ETC.) and they make money and loose money as the Castros allow. the lifitng of travel restrictions will only benefit tour operator and hotels owner, nothing will filter or change the life of ordinary cubans, now freedom of press and association, will defenitly be a step in the right direction. Lets keep at it. God bless.
fidel pro democracy,
In order for any dialogue to begin, both sides have to bring something to the table. If the US brings the embargo and its easing to the table, what is Cuba going to bring?
I would say that no dialogue is necessary. The US position is clear. The embargo will be lifted when Cuba frees the political prisoners, allows the opposition to organize, opens the media up and allows free speech, calls for and conducts free and fair multiparty elections and acknowledges and agrees to a settlement for the illegal confiscation of US assets. None of those actions is really that difficult are they? They are what free people take for granted every day. When Cuba does those things, the that country will once again be welcomed into the fraternity of democracies. The dialogue that needs to happen is between the Cuban rulers and their subjects, after 50 years of monologue.
I would say that no dialogue is necessary. The US position is clear. The embargo will be lifted when Cuba frees the political prisoners, allows the opposition to organize, opens the media up and allows free speech, calls for and conducts free and fair multiparty elections and acknowledges and agrees to a settlement for the illegal confiscation of US assets. None of those actions is really that difficult are they? They are what free people take for granted every day. When Cuba does those things, the that country will once again be welcomed into the fraternity of democracies. The dialogue that needs to happen is between the Cuban rulers and their subjects, after 50 years of monologue.
I would say that no dialogue is necessary. The US position is clear. The embargo will be lifted when Cuba frees the political prisoners, allows the opposition to organize, opens the media up and allows free speech, calls for and conducts free and fair multiparty elections and acknowledges and agrees to a settlement for the illegal confiscation of US assets. None of those actions is really that difficult are they? They are what free people take for granted every day. When Cuba does those things, the that country will once again be welcomed into the fraternity of democracies. The dialogue that needs to happen is between the Cuban rulers and their subjects, after 50 years of monologue.
I would say that no dialogue is necessary. The US position is clear. The embargo will be lifted when Cuba frees the political prisoners, allows the opposition to organize, opens the media up and allows free speech, calls for and conducts free and fair multiparty elections and acknowledges and agrees to a settlement for the illegal confiscation of US assets. None of those actions is really that difficult are they? They are what free people take for granted every day. When Cuba does those things, the that country will once again be welcomed into the fraternity of democracies. The dialogue that needs to happen is between the Cuban rulers and their subjects, after 50 years of monologue.
Henry, even that isn’t enough for me. It would mean letting the Castro-ites off the hook. There needs to be prison doors slamming, keys being tossed in the sewer, and electric chairs sizzling.
We all want to see justice in Cuba. I’m talking about the conditions that the US has already set for removal of the embargo. There is no reason to relax those conditions now.
We all want to see justice in Cuba. I’m talking about the conditions that the US has already set for removal of the embargo. There is no reason to relax those conditions now.
We all want to see justice in Cuba. I’m talking about the conditions that the US has already set for removal of the embargo. There is no reason to relax those conditions now.
We all want to see justice in Cuba. I’m talking about the conditions that the US has already set for removal of the embargo. There is no reason to relax those conditions now.
Why should I have to be the one who comes up with Plan B?
It’s the old Cuban Americans (mostly) that insist on sticking to the failed Plan A. Why is it “We can’t let up now” and “Wait till next year”?
JFK started the Embargo to get rid of Castro and obviously it has not worked.
Call me whatever names you want but at least I am not sticking with a foreign policy failure.
With that mind set we will be in Iraq for 45 years!
Again. I am not a crazy liberal. I think I represent the average Joe American who doesn’t know much about Cuba.
Let us go there and discover for ourselves what an ass Fidel is then come home and figure out a way to pressure the Cuban government to change.
Right now there is NO PRESSURE on Cuba to change. Is that obvious? Cuba’s economy is a failure because it’s a communist country NOT because of the Embargo.
Here’s why YOU have to come up with plan b. Because there’s a status quo and you are the one advocating a change. YOU have to have a reason.
As far as maintaining the status quo I have many reasons like NOT rewarding an outlaw unelected regime.
The US does not need Cuba. Cuba needs the US if it is ever to be an advanced country again. The onus is on the regime to change.
If this were a chess game it would be Cuba’s move.
You are asking the US to make a move, out of turn that strengthens the opponent. Here take our queen.
You’re damn right that you need a reason. You have to explain how that move gets us closer to winning the game otherwise nobody here is going to take you seriously. And if you have anything to do with Havana Journal you aren’t the simple person you claim to be.
And you lied about the embargo. It was a punitive measure because of expropriations. Punitive means to punish. Since Cuba has not made restitution, the punishment remains. And show me where I say that I believe it would get rid of castro. I don’t think it will.
If you read this blog, and I know you do, you would know that I believe that embargo or no embargo that no change is coming to Cuba until the castro brothers are out of the way. No plan A, no plan b, nothing short of a military action will end the dictatorship. So we wait. We’ll let God do what others couldn’t. Kill castro.
And then when the new faces assume power we can only hope that they’ll see exactly HOW EASY it is to have the embargo removed if they really want that.
So don’t give me any more of this bullshit.
Here’s why YOU have to come up with plan b. Because there’s a status quo and you are the one advocating a change. YOU have to have a reason.
As far as maintaining the status quo I have many reasons like NOT rewarding an outlaw unelected regime.
The US does not need Cuba. Cuba needs the US if it is ever to be an advanced country again. The onus is on the regime to change.
If this were a chess game it would be Cuba’s move.
You are asking the US to make a move, out of turn that strengthens the opponent. Here take our queen.
You’re damn right that you need a reason. You have to explain how that move gets us closer to winning the game otherwise nobody here is going to take you seriously. And if you have anything to do with Havana Journal you aren’t the simple person you claim to be.
And you lied about the embargo. It was a punitive measure because of expropriations. Punitive means to punish. Since Cuba has not made restitution, the punishment remains. And show me where I say that I believe it would get rid of castro. I don’t think it will.
If you read this blog, and I know you do, you would know that I believe that embargo or no embargo that no change is coming to Cuba until the castro brothers are out of the way. No plan A, no plan b, nothing short of a military action will end the dictatorship. So we wait. We’ll let God do what others couldn’t. Kill castro.
And then when the new faces assume power we can only hope that they’ll see exactly HOW EASY it is to have the embargo removed if they really want that.
So don’t give me any more of this bullshit.
Here’s why YOU have to come up with plan b. Because there’s a status quo and you are the one advocating a change. YOU have to have a reason.
As far as maintaining the status quo I have many reasons like NOT rewarding an outlaw unelected regime.
The US does not need Cuba. Cuba needs the US if it is ever to be an advanced country again. The onus is on the regime to change.
If this were a chess game it would be Cuba’s move.
You are asking the US to make a move, out of turn that strengthens the opponent. Here take our queen.
You’re damn right that you need a reason. You have to explain how that move gets us closer to winning the game otherwise nobody here is going to take you seriously. And if you have anything to do with Havana Journal you aren’t the simple person you claim to be.
And you lied about the embargo. It was a punitive measure because of expropriations. Punitive means to punish. Since Cuba has not made restitution, the punishment remains. And show me where I say that I believe it would get rid of castro. I don’t think it will.
If you read this blog, and I know you do, you would know that I believe that embargo or no embargo that no change is coming to Cuba until the castro brothers are out of the way. No plan A, no plan b, nothing short of a military action will end the dictatorship. So we wait. We’ll let God do what others couldn’t. Kill castro.
And then when the new faces assume power we can only hope that they’ll see exactly HOW EASY it is to have the embargo removed if they really want that.
So don’t give me any more of this bullshit.
Here’s why YOU have to come up with plan b. Because there’s a status quo and you are the one advocating a change. YOU have to have a reason.
As far as maintaining the status quo I have many reasons like NOT rewarding an outlaw unelected regime.
The US does not need Cuba. Cuba needs the US if it is ever to be an advanced country again. The onus is on the regime to change.
If this were a chess game it would be Cuba’s move.
You are asking the US to make a move, out of turn that strengthens the opponent. Here take our queen.
You’re damn right that you need a reason. You have to explain how that move gets us closer to winning the game otherwise nobody here is going to take you seriously. And if you have anything to do with Havana Journal you aren’t the simple person you claim to be.
And you lied about the embargo. It was a punitive measure because of expropriations. Punitive means to punish. Since Cuba has not made restitution, the punishment remains. And show me where I say that I believe it would get rid of castro. I don’t think it will.
If you read this blog, and I know you do, you would know that I believe that embargo or no embargo that no change is coming to Cuba until the castro brothers are out of the way. No plan A, no plan b, nothing short of a military action will end the dictatorship. So we wait. We’ll let God do what others couldn’t. Kill castro.
And then when the new faces assume power we can only hope that they’ll see exactly HOW EASY it is to have the embargo removed if they really want that.
So don’t give me any more of this bullshit.
Henry,
First, to be clear, I am the owner and publisher of HavanaJournal.com. I do not have any Cuban heritage or personal ties to Cuba.
I like the Babalu blog and appreciate this forum for discussion. I understand your position better now about punishing Castro with the Embargo but you know he uses it as an excuse for his failures so why let him?
Also, I never understood how the Embargo could work when the Cuban American community sends MILLIONS of dollars to Cuba every year yet you tell people they shouldn’t spend money in hotels etc. Does ALL money end up supporting the Cuban government?
Anyway, I don’t need to get into a whole debate on the Embargo but I will never be in favor of restricting MY freedoms to serve some international purpose.
I firmly believe that if the Embargo was lifted that more Americans would discover the mess in Cuba and want to change it, instead most Americans probably couldn’t even find Cuba on a map so why would they care about changing the country?
I don’t know about you but I’ll take freedom every time.
Rob,
Thanks for clarifying your relationship to Havana journal. It doesn’t matter to me whether you are Cuban or not. You have a web site and are an activist. As best I could tell from the few visits I’ve made to Havana Journal, it’s a repository for anti-embargo articles. Which is fine. That’s your point of view. But it’s not the only valid point of view. But I never understood why Oscar Corral had you listed under anti-castro hardliners on his non-blog.
As far as my position goes, I can’t write a tome about the embargo every time it’s mentioned here. You can do a search in the sidebar and find everything I’ve written on the topic.
Now to your points. You say “you know [fidel] uses it as an excuse for his failures so why let him?”
Let’s look at that statement. An exuse implies that it’s not the real reason for his failures. You are acknowledging that you understand this which I already know. So my question is, if you know it and I know it, who else do we need to convince? Why does it matter if castro has an empty excuse. Your argument assumes that there is something to be gained by removing that excuse. And my question is what and from who? If there are people out there who for whatever reason don’t see it as an excuse (because they aren’t as smart as you and me) why do I care what their opinion is? What power do they have to change things in Cuba? At best these are uninformed dolts? So who are we trying to convince?
On the remittances, I agree. We have seen the enemy and it is us. Cuban exiles are largely responsible for keeping the regime afloat with billions in remittances. And yes every dollar that enters Cuba ultimately goes to the government coffers. You know that. The government controls all of the the legal business operations on the island. Even a black marketeer has to eventually buy stuff from the government. The system is set up to enrich the apparatus while depriving the people of their independence from it. My personal preference would be to shut that spigot off completely. It would be catastrophic for the regime. But I can already the criticisms coming my way because I’m so insensitive and it’s easy for me to say because I don’thave immediate family in Cuba. Fine, that goes with the territory. The more criticism I get, the more I know that I’m cutting to the quick. I have an veritable admiration society out there.
Your personal opinion may be “I will never be in favor of restricting MY freedoms to serve some international purpose.” but the courts have disagreed with you again and again. The federal government does have an obligation to conduct foreign policy for the country and your right vacation in Cuba (or do anything else there) is subordinate to those powers. See the recent ruling against Wayne Smith. Like it or not, we have a democracy and Cuban exiles have used the instruments of democracy to have the current policies enacted. For that we get criticisms like the Pat Oliphant cartoon that ran on the WaPo web site. Tough luck to Pat Oliphant and to you and your “right”.
I think your vision of Americans “discovering the mess in Cuba and wanting to change it ” is utopian at best. Americans travel to foreign countries (albeit not totalitarian ones) all the time and drink their piña coladas, complain about the conditions and return to their life in the burbs. Which is fine. It’s up to the people of those countries to make their countries better. But in Cuba the people don’t even have a chance to do that. Besides many Americans do travel to Cuba and have since 1959 and we’ve read all the accounts. Most of them come back singing the praises of it. So spare me the pie in the sky wishful thinking.
It’s strikes me that despite the fact you run a web site with what I can assume is a considerable readership, that you don’t fully comprehend the nature of the regime. Otherwise you wouldn’t be so keen on changing US policy and would be more keen on changing Cuba’s policies. To wit my post that started this discussion. I am not a moderate when it comes to Cuba. Cuba has to change. The US does not have to change.
Good day sir.
Rob,
Thanks for clarifying your relationship to Havana journal. It doesn’t matter to me whether you are Cuban or not. You have a web site and are an activist. As best I could tell from the few visits I’ve made to Havana Journal, it’s a repository for anti-embargo articles. Which is fine. That’s your point of view. But it’s not the only valid point of view. But I never understood why Oscar Corral had you listed under anti-castro hardliners on his non-blog.
As far as my position goes, I can’t write a tome about the embargo every time it’s mentioned here. You can do a search in the sidebar and find everything I’ve written on the topic.
Now to your points. You say “you know [fidel] uses it as an excuse for his failures so why let him?”
Let’s look at that statement. An exuse implies that it’s not the real reason for his failures. You are acknowledging that you understand this which I already know. So my question is, if you know it and I know it, who else do we need to convince? Why does it matter if castro has an empty excuse. Your argument assumes that there is something to be gained by removing that excuse. And my question is what and from who? If there are people out there who for whatever reason don’t see it as an excuse (because they aren’t as smart as you and me) why do I care what their opinion is? What power do they have to change things in Cuba? At best these are uninformed dolts? So who are we trying to convince?
On the remittances, I agree. We have seen the enemy and it is us. Cuban exiles are largely responsible for keeping the regime afloat with billions in remittances. And yes every dollar that enters Cuba ultimately goes to the government coffers. You know that. The government controls all of the the legal business operations on the island. Even a black marketeer has to eventually buy stuff from the government. The system is set up to enrich the apparatus while depriving the people of their independence from it. My personal preference would be to shut that spigot off completely. It would be catastrophic for the regime. But I can already the criticisms coming my way because I’m so insensitive and it’s easy for me to say because I don’thave immediate family in Cuba. Fine, that goes with the territory. The more criticism I get, the more I know that I’m cutting to the quick. I have an veritable admiration society out there.
Your personal opinion may be “I will never be in favor of restricting MY freedoms to serve some international purpose.” but the courts have disagreed with you again and again. The federal government does have an obligation to conduct foreign policy for the country and your right vacation in Cuba (or do anything else there) is subordinate to those powers. See the recent ruling against Wayne Smith. Like it or not, we have a democracy and Cuban exiles have used the instruments of democracy to have the current policies enacted. For that we get criticisms like the Pat Oliphant cartoon that ran on the WaPo web site. Tough luck to Pat Oliphant and to you and your “right”.
I think your vision of Americans “discovering the mess in Cuba and wanting to change it ” is utopian at best. Americans travel to foreign countries (albeit not totalitarian ones) all the time and drink their piña coladas, complain about the conditions and return to their life in the burbs. Which is fine. It’s up to the people of those countries to make their countries better. But in Cuba the people don’t even have a chance to do that. Besides many Americans do travel to Cuba and have since 1959 and we’ve read all the accounts. Most of them come back singing the praises of it. So spare me the pie in the sky wishful thinking.
It’s strikes me that despite the fact you run a web site with what I can assume is a considerable readership, that you don’t fully comprehend the nature of the regime. Otherwise you wouldn’t be so keen on changing US policy and would be more keen on changing Cuba’s policies. To wit my post that started this discussion. I am not a moderate when it comes to Cuba. Cuba has to change. The US does not have to change.
Good day sir.
Rob,
Thanks for clarifying your relationship to Havana journal. It doesn’t matter to me whether you are Cuban or not. You have a web site and are an activist. As best I could tell from the few visits I’ve made to Havana Journal, it’s a repository for anti-embargo articles. Which is fine. That’s your point of view. But it’s not the only valid point of view. But I never understood why Oscar Corral had you listed under anti-castro hardliners on his non-blog.
As far as my position goes, I can’t write a tome about the embargo every time it’s mentioned here. You can do a search in the sidebar and find everything I’ve written on the topic.
Now to your points. You say “you know [fidel] uses it as an excuse for his failures so why let him?”
Let’s look at that statement. An exuse implies that it’s not the real reason for his failures. You are acknowledging that you understand this which I already know. So my question is, if you know it and I know it, who else do we need to convince? Why does it matter if castro has an empty excuse. Your argument assumes that there is something to be gained by removing that excuse. And my question is what and from who? If there are people out there who for whatever reason don’t see it as an excuse (because they aren’t as smart as you and me) why do I care what their opinion is? What power do they have to change things in Cuba? At best these are uninformed dolts? So who are we trying to convince?
On the remittances, I agree. We have seen the enemy and it is us. Cuban exiles are largely responsible for keeping the regime afloat with billions in remittances. And yes every dollar that enters Cuba ultimately goes to the government coffers. You know that. The government controls all of the the legal business operations on the island. Even a black marketeer has to eventually buy stuff from the government. The system is set up to enrich the apparatus while depriving the people of their independence from it. My personal preference would be to shut that spigot off completely. It would be catastrophic for the regime. But I can already the criticisms coming my way because I’m so insensitive and it’s easy for me to say because I don’thave immediate family in Cuba. Fine, that goes with the territory. The more criticism I get, the more I know that I’m cutting to the quick. I have an veritable admiration society out there.
Your personal opinion may be “I will never be in favor of restricting MY freedoms to serve some international purpose.” but the courts have disagreed with you again and again. The federal government does have an obligation to conduct foreign policy for the country and your right vacation in Cuba (or do anything else there) is subordinate to those powers. See the recent ruling against Wayne Smith. Like it or not, we have a democracy and Cuban exiles have used the instruments of democracy to have the current policies enacted. For that we get criticisms like the Pat Oliphant cartoon that ran on the WaPo web site. Tough luck to Pat Oliphant and to you and your “right”.
I think your vision of Americans “discovering the mess in Cuba and wanting to change it ” is utopian at best. Americans travel to foreign countries (albeit not totalitarian ones) all the time and drink their piña coladas, complain about the conditions and return to their life in the burbs. Which is fine. It’s up to the people of those countries to make their countries better. But in Cuba the people don’t even have a chance to do that. Besides many Americans do travel to Cuba and have since 1959 and we’ve read all the accounts. Most of them come back singing the praises of it. So spare me the pie in the sky wishful thinking.
It’s strikes me that despite the fact you run a web site with what I can assume is a considerable readership, that you don’t fully comprehend the nature of the regime. Otherwise you wouldn’t be so keen on changing US policy and would be more keen on changing Cuba’s policies. To wit my post that started this discussion. I am not a moderate when it comes to Cuba. Cuba has to change. The US does not have to change.
Good day sir.
Rob,
Thanks for clarifying your relationship to Havana journal. It doesn’t matter to me whether you are Cuban or not. You have a web site and are an activist. As best I could tell from the few visits I’ve made to Havana Journal, it’s a repository for anti-embargo articles. Which is fine. That’s your point of view. But it’s not the only valid point of view. But I never understood why Oscar Corral had you listed under anti-castro hardliners on his non-blog.
As far as my position goes, I can’t write a tome about the embargo every time it’s mentioned here. You can do a search in the sidebar and find everything I’ve written on the topic.
Now to your points. You say “you know [fidel] uses it as an excuse for his failures so why let him?”
Let’s look at that statement. An exuse implies that it’s not the real reason for his failures. You are acknowledging that you understand this which I already know. So my question is, if you know it and I know it, who else do we need to convince? Why does it matter if castro has an empty excuse. Your argument assumes that there is something to be gained by removing that excuse. And my question is what and from who? If there are people out there who for whatever reason don’t see it as an excuse (because they aren’t as smart as you and me) why do I care what their opinion is? What power do they have to change things in Cuba? At best these are uninformed dolts? So who are we trying to convince?
On the remittances, I agree. We have seen the enemy and it is us. Cuban exiles are largely responsible for keeping the regime afloat with billions in remittances. And yes every dollar that enters Cuba ultimately goes to the government coffers. You know that. The government controls all of the the legal business operations on the island. Even a black marketeer has to eventually buy stuff from the government. The system is set up to enrich the apparatus while depriving the people of their independence from it. My personal preference would be to shut that spigot off completely. It would be catastrophic for the regime. But I can already the criticisms coming my way because I’m so insensitive and it’s easy for me to say because I don’thave immediate family in Cuba. Fine, that goes with the territory. The more criticism I get, the more I know that I’m cutting to the quick. I have an veritable admiration society out there.
Your personal opinion may be “I will never be in favor of restricting MY freedoms to serve some international purpose.” but the courts have disagreed with you again and again. The federal government does have an obligation to conduct foreign policy for the country and your right vacation in Cuba (or do anything else there) is subordinate to those powers. See the recent ruling against Wayne Smith. Like it or not, we have a democracy and Cuban exiles have used the instruments of democracy to have the current policies enacted. For that we get criticisms like the Pat Oliphant cartoon that ran on the WaPo web site. Tough luck to Pat Oliphant and to you and your “right”.
I think your vision of Americans “discovering the mess in Cuba and wanting to change it ” is utopian at best. Americans travel to foreign countries (albeit not totalitarian ones) all the time and drink their piña coladas, complain about the conditions and return to their life in the burbs. Which is fine. It’s up to the people of those countries to make their countries better. But in Cuba the people don’t even have a chance to do that. Besides many Americans do travel to Cuba and have since 1959 and we’ve read all the accounts. Most of them come back singing the praises of it. So spare me the pie in the sky wishful thinking.
It’s strikes me that despite the fact you run a web site with what I can assume is a considerable readership, that you don’t fully comprehend the nature of the regime. Otherwise you wouldn’t be so keen on changing US policy and would be more keen on changing Cuba’s policies. To wit my post that started this discussion. I am not a moderate when it comes to Cuba. Cuba has to change. The US does not have to change.
Good day sir.
1. I am anti-Castro and anti-Embargo but I have never been called an activist before. The Havana Journal is MUCH bigger than the Embargo but since that has such an effect on everything, it is always coming up.
2. “Why does it matter if castro has an empty excuse.” Because the Cuban people believe the US is the reason for their problems. Correct?
3. I’m glad you agree that the remittances are part of the problem. If pro-Embargo proponents were serious about the Embargo then they would cut off ALL remittances, ALL travel to Cuba and end the wet foot dry foot policy. I DO NOT condone ANY of those actions but to me they seem like holes or “pressure release valves” in the Embargo thus allowing it to continue to be a failure for all these years.
4. Insert this (money and power in Presidential elections) “we have a democracy and Cuban exiles have used the instruments ==>HERE1. I am anti-Castro and anti-Embargo but I have never been called an activist before. The Havana Journal is MUCH bigger than the Embargo but since that has such an effect on everything, it is always coming up.
2. “Why does it matter if castro has an empty excuse.” Because the Cuban people believe the US is the reason for their problems. Correct?
3. I’m glad you agree that the remittances are part of the problem. If pro-Embargo proponents were serious about the Embargo then they would cut off ALL remittances, ALL travel to Cuba and end the wet foot dry foot policy. I DO NOT condone ANY of those actions but to me they seem like holes or “pressure release valves” in the Embargo thus allowing it to continue to be a failure for all these years.
4. Insert this (money and power in Presidential elections) “we have a democracy and Cuban exiles have used the instruments ==>HERE<==of democracy to have the current policies enacted." I am not saying that is a bad thing. That's just politics. Anyway, I will always stand up for freedom here in the US and in Cuba. I appreciate your reasons for supporting the Embargo but I think we will have to agree to disagree on this topic but we both agree that change must happen in Cuba. I have come out publicly supporting Oswaldo Paya and hope that he can do some good down there. See you next time my fren.
I only want to address a couple of points. The Cuban people are NOT dumb. They see castro come on TV and urge the 10 million ton sugar harvest and then see it fail. They know that’s not the embargo’s fault. They see the mini-cow, the super-cow and all the other hair brained schemes that castro comes up with and they know that it’s not the embargo’s fault. They see the fall of communism in every other country in the world except North Korea (China is not communist anymore, it’s fascist) and they know that it isn’t the embargo’s fault. Even if the average Cuban did believe that the embargo was the root cause of their problems, removing it would not bring Cuba any closer to freedom because unfortunately they don’t have any power to do anything about the real cause of their of their problems. That’s why it’s a dictatorship. The regime would come up with more excuses, make more empty promise and ratchet up the repression.
As far as using money and political influence, isn’t that the way the game works? Isn’t that how old people get their way? Isn’t that how big business gets its way? Isn’t that the way the farmers get their way? Isn’t that the way the Jewish Israel lobby gets its way? Why is it that when Cubans use the tools of democracy that it’s somehow unseemly? We have a point of view and we fund and support candidates that share that point of view. That’s the American way. Want to lift the embargo, then do a better job getting your candidates elected.
As far as Paya goes I’m glad that you support him. Perhaps if Spain’s prime minister had supported him (and Marta Beatriz and Dr. Biscet and the others) instead of backslapping with Raul and engaging in a “dialogue” with the regime the Cuban people would be closer to freedom today.
And don’t kid yourself, you’re an activist.
I only want to address a couple of points. The Cuban people are NOT dumb. They see castro come on TV and urge the 10 million ton sugar harvest and then see it fail. They know that’s not the embargo’s fault. They see the mini-cow, the super-cow and all the other hair brained schemes that castro comes up with and they know that it’s not the embargo’s fault. They see the fall of communism in every other country in the world except North Korea (China is not communist anymore, it’s fascist) and they know that it isn’t the embargo’s fault. Even if the average Cuban did believe that the embargo was the root cause of their problems, removing it would not bring Cuba any closer to freedom because unfortunately they don’t have any power to do anything about the real cause of their of their problems. That’s why it’s a dictatorship. The regime would come up with more excuses, make more empty promise and ratchet up the repression.
As far as using money and political influence, isn’t that the way the game works? Isn’t that how old people get their way? Isn’t that how big business gets its way? Isn’t that the way the farmers get their way? Isn’t that the way the Jewish Israel lobby gets its way? Why is it that when Cubans use the tools of democracy that it’s somehow unseemly? We have a point of view and we fund and support candidates that share that point of view. That’s the American way. Want to lift the embargo, then do a better job getting your candidates elected.
As far as Paya goes I’m glad that you support him. Perhaps if Spain’s prime minister had supported him (and Marta Beatriz and Dr. Biscet and the others) instead of backslapping with Raul and engaging in a “dialogue” with the regime the Cuban people would be closer to freedom today.
And don’t kid yourself, you’re an activist.
I only want to address a couple of points. The Cuban people are NOT dumb. They see castro come on TV and urge the 10 million ton sugar harvest and then see it fail. They know that’s not the embargo’s fault. They see the mini-cow, the super-cow and all the other hair brained schemes that castro comes up with and they know that it’s not the embargo’s fault. They see the fall of communism in every other country in the world except North Korea (China is not communist anymore, it’s fascist) and they know that it isn’t the embargo’s fault. Even if the average Cuban did believe that the embargo was the root cause of their problems, removing it would not bring Cuba any closer to freedom because unfortunately they don’t have any power to do anything about the real cause of their of their problems. That’s why it’s a dictatorship. The regime would come up with more excuses, make more empty promise and ratchet up the repression.
As far as using money and political influence, isn’t that the way the game works? Isn’t that how old people get their way? Isn’t that how big business gets its way? Isn’t that the way the farmers get their way? Isn’t that the way the Jewish Israel lobby gets its way? Why is it that when Cubans use the tools of democracy that it’s somehow unseemly? We have a point of view and we fund and support candidates that share that point of view. That’s the American way. Want to lift the embargo, then do a better job getting your candidates elected.
As far as Paya goes I’m glad that you support him. Perhaps if Spain’s prime minister had supported him (and Marta Beatriz and Dr. Biscet and the others) instead of backslapping with Raul and engaging in a “dialogue” with the regime the Cuban people would be closer to freedom today.
And don’t kid yourself, you’re an activist.
I only want to address a couple of points. The Cuban people are NOT dumb. They see castro come on TV and urge the 10 million ton sugar harvest and then see it fail. They know that’s not the embargo’s fault. They see the mini-cow, the super-cow and all the other hair brained schemes that castro comes up with and they know that it’s not the embargo’s fault. They see the fall of communism in every other country in the world except North Korea (China is not communist anymore, it’s fascist) and they know that it isn’t the embargo’s fault. Even if the average Cuban did believe that the embargo was the root cause of their problems, removing it would not bring Cuba any closer to freedom because unfortunately they don’t have any power to do anything about the real cause of their of their problems. That’s why it’s a dictatorship. The regime would come up with more excuses, make more empty promise and ratchet up the repression.
As far as using money and political influence, isn’t that the way the game works? Isn’t that how old people get their way? Isn’t that how big business gets its way? Isn’t that the way the farmers get their way? Isn’t that the way the Jewish Israel lobby gets its way? Why is it that when Cubans use the tools of democracy that it’s somehow unseemly? We have a point of view and we fund and support candidates that share that point of view. That’s the American way. Want to lift the embargo, then do a better job getting your candidates elected.
As far as Paya goes I’m glad that you support him. Perhaps if Spain’s prime minister had supported him (and Marta Beatriz and Dr. Biscet and the others) instead of backslapping with Raul and engaging in a “dialogue” with the regime the Cuban people would be closer to freedom today.
And don’t kid yourself, you’re an activist.
Hmmm. Can I be a passive activist? 🙂
Okay, we can wrap this up.
I agree with your second paragraph. Might I suggest that when there is no Embargo then the power base and flow of money from Washington to end the Embargo goes away? I know I might be touching a sensitive subject but this is another reason I believe that the Embargo has been going on for so long, so Miami and some political groups benefit from the money and power.
I know, you’ll probably beat me up on this point but I am curious to have your thoughts on this point.
Lastly, I support Paya and not Beatriz Roque because I feel she is “tainted” by her connections to Miami.
Go ahead and beat me up on that point too if necessary.
Thanks for the space.
First on the idea that people profit from the embargo. Perhaps some do. This is an allegation that the regime makes to discredit the exile community.
But the latest FIU poll of Cuban-Americans shows that only 28.6% of them want to remove the embargo right now. That means 71.4% want to keep the embargo until one of several things happens in Cuba. 71.4% of the people can’t be profiting from the embargo can they?
The people that I know for a fact profit from the embargo are the travel agencies (that all have ties to the regime) that sell tickets to Cuba. But I’m not willing to give up the only leverage that we have on castro’s successor just to put them out of business.
And your point on Martha Beatriz Roque is not valid. Maybe you haven’t thought what you are saying through but it’s very insulting. For years the exile community was knocked because it was not a representation of Cubans in Cuba. Now the exile community joins the dissident community in Cuba in an unprecedented way and it’s portrayed as “tainted”. That doesn’t make any sense to me. You are saying that the opinions of anyone related to Miami are not valid. Why? Cuban citizenship is for life, and you don’t lose it even if you become an American citizen. My parents are Cuban citizens. My grandmother is a Cuban citizen. I am eligible for Cuban citizenship because my parents are Cuban citizens. Why is our support of her tainting her? Let me remind you that many the leaders of the exile community have spent 10,15,20,25 and up to 30 years in Cuban political prisons. I think their opinion is just as valid as Martha Beatriz and if they happen to coincide then that’s fabulous thing. Are you suggesting that the exile community not be in solidarity or in communication with the political opposition in Cuba?
I am very suspicious of Paya for several reasons. The first is that his original Varela project was an attempt to reform the system using the system’s own mechanisms therefore legitimizing it. But more importantly he was very critical of the exile community. The same community that as I mentioned before has paid in blood and prison terms for attempts to liberate Cuba.
But the biggest reason I’m suspicious of Paya is that all of his collaborators for the Varela project were rounded up during the black spring and sent to prison. And Paya? Still sitting there. They didn’t touch him. I’m not saying he’s a castro agent but this FACT in combination with the other two makes me think twice before throwing him my support. That doesn’t mean that Moratinos couldn’t have visited him or Guillermo Fariñas or Darsi Ferrer or put Perez Roque on the spot and asked to visit Dr. Biscet when they were both standing there in front of the international media and Roque said “there are no political prisoners in Cuba”.
For someone that runs an entire web site dedicated to Cuba you seem very “equivocado” on some basic things.
First on the idea that people profit from the embargo. Perhaps some do. This is an allegation that the regime makes to discredit the exile community.
But the latest FIU poll of Cuban-Americans shows that only 28.6% of them want to remove the embargo right now. That means 71.4% want to keep the embargo until one of several things happens in Cuba. 71.4% of the people can’t be profiting from the embargo can they?
The people that I know for a fact profit from the embargo are the travel agencies (that all have ties to the regime) that sell tickets to Cuba. But I’m not willing to give up the only leverage that we have on castro’s successor just to put them out of business.
And your point on Martha Beatriz Roque is not valid. Maybe you haven’t thought what you are saying through but it’s very insulting. For years the exile community was knocked because it was not a representation of Cubans in Cuba. Now the exile community joins the dissident community in Cuba in an unprecedented way and it’s portrayed as “tainted”. That doesn’t make any sense to me. You are saying that the opinions of anyone related to Miami are not valid. Why? Cuban citizenship is for life, and you don’t lose it even if you become an American citizen. My parents are Cuban citizens. My grandmother is a Cuban citizen. I am eligible for Cuban citizenship because my parents are Cuban citizens. Why is our support of her tainting her? Let me remind you that many the leaders of the exile community have spent 10,15,20,25 and up to 30 years in Cuban political prisons. I think their opinion is just as valid as Martha Beatriz and if they happen to coincide then that’s fabulous thing. Are you suggesting that the exile community not be in solidarity or in communication with the political opposition in Cuba?
I am very suspicious of Paya for several reasons. The first is that his original Varela project was an attempt to reform the system using the system’s own mechanisms therefore legitimizing it. But more importantly he was very critical of the exile community. The same community that as I mentioned before has paid in blood and prison terms for attempts to liberate Cuba.
But the biggest reason I’m suspicious of Paya is that all of his collaborators for the Varela project were rounded up during the black spring and sent to prison. And Paya? Still sitting there. They didn’t touch him. I’m not saying he’s a castro agent but this FACT in combination with the other two makes me think twice before throwing him my support. That doesn’t mean that Moratinos couldn’t have visited him or Guillermo Fariñas or Darsi Ferrer or put Perez Roque on the spot and asked to visit Dr. Biscet when they were both standing there in front of the international media and Roque said “there are no political prisoners in Cuba”.
For someone that runs an entire web site dedicated to Cuba you seem very “equivocado” on some basic things.
First on the idea that people profit from the embargo. Perhaps some do. This is an allegation that the regime makes to discredit the exile community.
But the latest FIU poll of Cuban-Americans shows that only 28.6% of them want to remove the embargo right now. That means 71.4% want to keep the embargo until one of several things happens in Cuba. 71.4% of the people can’t be profiting from the embargo can they?
The people that I know for a fact profit from the embargo are the travel agencies (that all have ties to the regime) that sell tickets to Cuba. But I’m not willing to give up the only leverage that we have on castro’s successor just to put them out of business.
And your point on Martha Beatriz Roque is not valid. Maybe you haven’t thought what you are saying through but it’s very insulting. For years the exile community was knocked because it was not a representation of Cubans in Cuba. Now the exile community joins the dissident community in Cuba in an unprecedented way and it’s portrayed as “tainted”. That doesn’t make any sense to me. You are saying that the opinions of anyone related to Miami are not valid. Why? Cuban citizenship is for life, and you don’t lose it even if you become an American citizen. My parents are Cuban citizens. My grandmother is a Cuban citizen. I am eligible for Cuban citizenship because my parents are Cuban citizens. Why is our support of her tainting her? Let me remind you that many the leaders of the exile community have spent 10,15,20,25 and up to 30 years in Cuban political prisons. I think their opinion is just as valid as Martha Beatriz and if they happen to coincide then that’s fabulous thing. Are you suggesting that the exile community not be in solidarity or in communication with the political opposition in Cuba?
I am very suspicious of Paya for several reasons. The first is that his original Varela project was an attempt to reform the system using the system’s own mechanisms therefore legitimizing it. But more importantly he was very critical of the exile community. The same community that as I mentioned before has paid in blood and prison terms for attempts to liberate Cuba.
But the biggest reason I’m suspicious of Paya is that all of his collaborators for the Varela project were rounded up during the black spring and sent to prison. And Paya? Still sitting there. They didn’t touch him. I’m not saying he’s a castro agent but this FACT in combination with the other two makes me think twice before throwing him my support. That doesn’t mean that Moratinos couldn’t have visited him or Guillermo Fariñas or Darsi Ferrer or put Perez Roque on the spot and asked to visit Dr. Biscet when they were both standing there in front of the international media and Roque said “there are no political prisoners in Cuba”.
For someone that runs an entire web site dedicated to Cuba you seem very “equivocado” on some basic things.
First on the idea that people profit from the embargo. Perhaps some do. This is an allegation that the regime makes to discredit the exile community.
But the latest FIU poll of Cuban-Americans shows that only 28.6% of them want to remove the embargo right now. That means 71.4% want to keep the embargo until one of several things happens in Cuba. 71.4% of the people can’t be profiting from the embargo can they?
The people that I know for a fact profit from the embargo are the travel agencies (that all have ties to the regime) that sell tickets to Cuba. But I’m not willing to give up the only leverage that we have on castro’s successor just to put them out of business.
And your point on Martha Beatriz Roque is not valid. Maybe you haven’t thought what you are saying through but it’s very insulting. For years the exile community was knocked because it was not a representation of Cubans in Cuba. Now the exile community joins the dissident community in Cuba in an unprecedented way and it’s portrayed as “tainted”. That doesn’t make any sense to me. You are saying that the opinions of anyone related to Miami are not valid. Why? Cuban citizenship is for life, and you don’t lose it even if you become an American citizen. My parents are Cuban citizens. My grandmother is a Cuban citizen. I am eligible for Cuban citizenship because my parents are Cuban citizens. Why is our support of her tainting her? Let me remind you that many the leaders of the exile community have spent 10,15,20,25 and up to 30 years in Cuban political prisons. I think their opinion is just as valid as Martha Beatriz and if they happen to coincide then that’s fabulous thing. Are you suggesting that the exile community not be in solidarity or in communication with the political opposition in Cuba?
I am very suspicious of Paya for several reasons. The first is that his original Varela project was an attempt to reform the system using the system’s own mechanisms therefore legitimizing it. But more importantly he was very critical of the exile community. The same community that as I mentioned before has paid in blood and prison terms for attempts to liberate Cuba.
But the biggest reason I’m suspicious of Paya is that all of his collaborators for the Varela project were rounded up during the black spring and sent to prison. And Paya? Still sitting there. They didn’t touch him. I’m not saying he’s a castro agent but this FACT in combination with the other two makes me think twice before throwing him my support. That doesn’t mean that Moratinos couldn’t have visited him or Guillermo Fariñas or Darsi Ferrer or put Perez Roque on the spot and asked to visit Dr. Biscet when they were both standing there in front of the international media and Roque said “there are no political prisoners in Cuba”.
For someone that runs an entire web site dedicated to Cuba you seem very “equivocado” on some basic things.
I think we just have different backgrounds and different political beliefs so we are going to disagree more than agree but I appreciate the respectful dialog. I appreciate the time spending with me giving me an education on your perspective.
I do not claim to be a Cuba expert but I have just as much right as you do to have my beliefs.
You know more about Cuba than I do but I think my mind is more open to options than yours.
I don’t say that as an insult but I don’t have the Cuban heritage, history, memories etc that you do so perhaps I can think out of the box easier than you can?
I can’t wait till we have a dialog about post-Castro post-Embargo Cuba.
Rob,
Of course you have a right to your beliefs. Nobody here thinks otherwise. But we are going to challenge them because a lot of people come here repeating slogans without thinking about the reality.
I think you are wrong about my open mind. I used to be against the embargo. I have a degree in economics from a respected University. I have an interest in politics. In other words I’m not some old guajiro playing dominos on 8th street. As I said I was against the embargo but because I have an open mind as I began to educate myself on the issues I realized that removal of the embargo only benefits the regime because large scale economic reforms are needed in Cuba for international trade to benefit the people. In other words the game is rigged so that the regime can capture hard currency while giving none of it to the people. Notice that they made the dollar legal when it was necessary but made it illegal again as soon as feasible and introduced a parallel currency the CUC. They don’t want people to enjoy the benefits of foreign trade or gain independence from the system. Removing the embargo before these basic reforms (and others like allowing private ownership of business and freedom to work in the private sector) is just pissing in the wind. I changed my mind. It happens to be a different opinion than yours but that doesn’t mean I’m closed minded. I was open to the facts and digested them and drew some conclusions. That’s why I said the onus was on you to show me where I am wrong, for you to come up with plan B. I am open minded but you have to show me something to make me question my rationally arrived at conclusions. I’m sorry to say that you haven’t done that.
I agree 100% with the sentiment of looking forward to the date when the embargo talk is moot. But not because we conceded to the regime without getting those political and economic reforms in return. Instead it will be because there is a free and democratic Cuba.
Rob,
Of course you have a right to your beliefs. Nobody here thinks otherwise. But we are going to challenge them because a lot of people come here repeating slogans without thinking about the reality.
I think you are wrong about my open mind. I used to be against the embargo. I have a degree in economics from a respected University. I have an interest in politics. In other words I’m not some old guajiro playing dominos on 8th street. As I said I was against the embargo but because I have an open mind as I began to educate myself on the issues I realized that removal of the embargo only benefits the regime because large scale economic reforms are needed in Cuba for international trade to benefit the people. In other words the game is rigged so that the regime can capture hard currency while giving none of it to the people. Notice that they made the dollar legal when it was necessary but made it illegal again as soon as feasible and introduced a parallel currency the CUC. They don’t want people to enjoy the benefits of foreign trade or gain independence from the system. Removing the embargo before these basic reforms (and others like allowing private ownership of business and freedom to work in the private sector) is just pissing in the wind. I changed my mind. It happens to be a different opinion than yours but that doesn’t mean I’m closed minded. I was open to the facts and digested them and drew some conclusions. That’s why I said the onus was on you to show me where I am wrong, for you to come up with plan B. I am open minded but you have to show me something to make me question my rationally arrived at conclusions. I’m sorry to say that you haven’t done that.
I agree 100% with the sentiment of looking forward to the date when the embargo talk is moot. But not because we conceded to the regime without getting those political and economic reforms in return. Instead it will be because there is a free and democratic Cuba.
Rob,
Of course you have a right to your beliefs. Nobody here thinks otherwise. But we are going to challenge them because a lot of people come here repeating slogans without thinking about the reality.
I think you are wrong about my open mind. I used to be against the embargo. I have a degree in economics from a respected University. I have an interest in politics. In other words I’m not some old guajiro playing dominos on 8th street. As I said I was against the embargo but because I have an open mind as I began to educate myself on the issues I realized that removal of the embargo only benefits the regime because large scale economic reforms are needed in Cuba for international trade to benefit the people. In other words the game is rigged so that the regime can capture hard currency while giving none of it to the people. Notice that they made the dollar legal when it was necessary but made it illegal again as soon as feasible and introduced a parallel currency the CUC. They don’t want people to enjoy the benefits of foreign trade or gain independence from the system. Removing the embargo before these basic reforms (and others like allowing private ownership of business and freedom to work in the private sector) is just pissing in the wind. I changed my mind. It happens to be a different opinion than yours but that doesn’t mean I’m closed minded. I was open to the facts and digested them and drew some conclusions. That’s why I said the onus was on you to show me where I am wrong, for you to come up with plan B. I am open minded but you have to show me something to make me question my rationally arrived at conclusions. I’m sorry to say that you haven’t done that.
I agree 100% with the sentiment of looking forward to the date when the embargo talk is moot. But not because we conceded to the regime without getting those political and economic reforms in return. Instead it will be because there is a free and democratic Cuba.
Rob,
Of course you have a right to your beliefs. Nobody here thinks otherwise. But we are going to challenge them because a lot of people come here repeating slogans without thinking about the reality.
I think you are wrong about my open mind. I used to be against the embargo. I have a degree in economics from a respected University. I have an interest in politics. In other words I’m not some old guajiro playing dominos on 8th street. As I said I was against the embargo but because I have an open mind as I began to educate myself on the issues I realized that removal of the embargo only benefits the regime because large scale economic reforms are needed in Cuba for international trade to benefit the people. In other words the game is rigged so that the regime can capture hard currency while giving none of it to the people. Notice that they made the dollar legal when it was necessary but made it illegal again as soon as feasible and introduced a parallel currency the CUC. They don’t want people to enjoy the benefits of foreign trade or gain independence from the system. Removing the embargo before these basic reforms (and others like allowing private ownership of business and freedom to work in the private sector) is just pissing in the wind. I changed my mind. It happens to be a different opinion than yours but that doesn’t mean I’m closed minded. I was open to the facts and digested them and drew some conclusions. That’s why I said the onus was on you to show me where I am wrong, for you to come up with plan B. I am open minded but you have to show me something to make me question my rationally arrived at conclusions. I’m sorry to say that you haven’t done that.
I agree 100% with the sentiment of looking forward to the date when the embargo talk is moot. But not because we conceded to the regime without getting those political and economic reforms in return. Instead it will be because there is a free and democratic Cuba.
Fair enough. Thanks for the dialog.
I won’t be checking this comments thread again. If there is some way for me to get an email when a comment is posted after mine, please let me know.
rob at havana journal .com