53 thoughts on “The final Juanes in Cuba post”

  1. Thank YOU! I never heard of this Jaunes until 3 weeks ago. What kind of a name is Juanes anyway? Juan Es ? ( estupido, Anormal, Imbecil,) We pay way to much attention to these buffoons with a little bit of talent and lots of self promotion skills.
    The scene outside Versailles and the discord this NON event has caused in Miami is exactly what the regime wanted to achieve with this, I say ignore the insignificant jaunes and the non event in the Plaza de la Robolucion.

  2. Chirino and Biscet have said positive things about the concert. Funny that you guys don’t mention it. You going to call Willy a “fucking communist son of a bitch?”

    Just curious.

  3. kind of annoying when your arguments fall apart, isn’t it. Did not Oscar Biscet and Willy Chirino say the concert wasn’t all bad? I did not expect them to embrace it, even I thought it was a bad idea, but it wasn’t as horrible as I or they thought it would be.

    Once you guys make an argument you stick to it 100%, admirable most of the time but last time I checked there is no one infallible on this planet. It would not hurt to every once in a while to stop dragging your knuckles on the ground, stand erect and evolve. Think with your heads not with your hearts – reason we Cubans screwed up Cuba is we always act first and then think, if at all.

    We hold up Marti to be a sainted martyr and while brilliant he was really a gifted poet and dreamer. There is a beautiful tragedy to his death we like to say when it was really the act of impulsive, histrionic idiot. We were screwed up from the beginning and we haven’t learned a darn thing since.

    We break off into our intellectual ghettoes convinced that our little faction is the only one that knows THE TRUTH. There is no dialogue, only screaming and shouting. I’ve said it a million times before, we all want the same thing but you guys seem to think that the only road to salvation is through your narrow stretch of beliefs. That is not only silly, but ultimately dooms our cause. You are so busy calling everybody out for not being conservative enough that you find yourself in a small tribe that while loud is ultimately ineffectual. There is no shame in coalitions on particular issues or in particular moments with people and groups that don’t always agree with you. But with you all it has to be your way or the highway. It really disgusts me when you people here knock dissidents because they don’t go with your party line.

  4. Cardinal,

    Have two questions for you:

    1. Were you born in Cuba?

    2. Did you live in Cuba between 1959 and the 1970s and were old enough to understand what was happening there?

    If you answer yes to both questions you would understand why many of us have great suspicions about many of the dissidents in the island today.

    The real dissidents in Cuba are either in jail or have spent time in Castro’s jails at one time or another, the rest only God knows what they are.

    About you criticizing our principles all I can say is that I stand by mines regardless of what you think. The current political situation we find ourselves today is the direct consequence of having too many exiles compromising (what it should not be compromised) their stands against the Castro regime. Maybe you’re one of those who wants to compromise (maybe not), but don’t expect me to do so because I won’t because I lived in Cuba under Castro for over 10 years of my life and I know how that regime works.

    The main reason America has a Marxist President today is because the American today have compromised their principles and look where is taking us, to the destruction of this great country.

    No musical concerts of any type in Cuba, no overtures and no concessions of any kind to the tyranny is going to bring freedom to the people in Cuba, the rest is one hundred percent horseshit. No carrot and stick approach will ever work against the Castro brothers, only a very hard and painful stick will bring down their tyranny.

    That the United States does not have the leadership and the willingness to enforce this policy is a topic that belongs in another post.

  5. I never contested that, I also never said that they approved of it afterwards. I did not approve of it either. What I said is that they came away from it with a not overwhelmingly negative impression, as opposed to most people here. In his interview with Maria Elvira Chirino still seemed uncomfortable with the idea, as he should, but said some nice things about it. That was awful big of him. He did not have to admit he was wrong because he still stuck to his guns, but he did give a hat tip.

    As for Biscet he said the following to Radio Marti,
    “Quizás Juanes y sus colaboradores tenían las mejores intenciones en sus mentes y corazones, y buscaban no sólo traer un poco de amor y alegría al pueblo. Quizas también, por qué no, influir positivamente hacia un cambio en la sociedad cubana, como manifestó en una canción sobre una isla que buscaba ser libre, y otra que hablaba de que es tiempo de cambio”

    Again not a ringing endorsement…it shouldn’t be because it still did not do enough. What is wrong with acknowledging that there have may have been just an inkling of goodness in all this? Juanes played in Havana and the world did not end. There wasn’t a need to go smashing up blank CDs on 8th St. There was no need to call up Juanes and Maria Elvira and phone death threats. All that stuff makes us look stupid and reactionary.

  6. 1. I am an American of Cuban descent. Proud of my heritage but love the country that introduced modern democracy to the world. The nation that recognized individual rights and not the divine rights of kings.

    2. See above.

    3. Wow, you are pretty smart! You have your own grading system for dissidents! Go to the jail that I did not have the balls to go to and I, Freedom4Cuba will give you my gold star of approval. You know what? Dissident or not the future of Cuba will be determined by the people of Cuba. I know that must depress the crap out of you since you know so much more than them, but such is life.

    4. What I am interested in first and foremost is that the national interests of the United States are pursued. Let’s say that we have your dream scenario – embargo is so oppressive that the Cuban regime collapses tomorrow. What do you think happens? Parties in the streets, elections next week, enlightened leadership in place the day after that? Please, I love my kind but can you name more than 3 politicians in all of Miami that don’t embarrass you? No, what will happen is there will be a veritable flotilla, of rafts, inner-tubes, boats cars, surfboards…whatever heading its way to Key Biscayne. Ultimately what the US wants is a transition to a liberal democracy but one that does not threaten the internal stability of the island…and that is what I want. Freedom and liberty without the chaos.

    5. Lovely, hyperbole. Is Obama a leftist? Of course. Marxist, hardly. He is still more conservative than the Social Democrats that pollute Europe. He is dangerously expanding the role of government in our economic lives and he must be stopped but just like FDR picked up where Hoover left off Obama is taking a lot of what W did and pumping it with steroids. Didn’t see anyone here when W pushed for the stimulus, forced BofA to swallow Merrill, took over AIG, expanded Medicare, blew up the budget surplus, created new federal departments…suddenly you all have a road to Damascus conversion. I’ve been bitching about this for years and no one cared, now a Democrat does it you seem surprised. If they see Republicans spending do you think that Dems will spend less?

    6. A concert will not bring freedom to Cuba…and neither will an embargo. Concessions may not be bring freedom to Cuba but neither will be standing pat. On any given week the Saudis and Chinese will kill more than the Cubans do in entire year. It’s been 50 friggin’ years. The embargo was made to isolate Cuba, not bring it down. It will only get weaker as time goes on because Americans just don’t see Cuba as a threat. I know this is heresy but Cuba is NOT a threat. Fidel Castro will not be able to destroy the US, I know it is hard to believe but it is true.

  7. “Is Obama a leftist? Of course. Marxist, hardly. He is still more conservative than the Social Democrats that pollute Europe.”

    That should tell the readers everything they need to know about you, Cardinal.

  8. Cardinal,

    I just threw up a bit in my mouth. Maybe it was bad eggs at breakfast or maybe it was your posted response. Most likely the latter.

    I am now completely convinced that you are a moron.

  9. George, Are you going to tell me that Obama is more to the left than the Social Democrats in Europe? As a matter of fact he sounds more like Sarkozy and Merkel. Does that make him a conservative? No. Does that mean I agree with his policies? No. It just means he is not a Marxist.

  10. Cardinal,

    I second Val on his assessment of you and reply to your post as this you finally have truly shown you colors.

    1. I told you very clear that I lived in Cuba and understand what went on there in the sixties and early seventies and my comment about the dissidents is based on that experience (anyone who dared to do anything against the regime in those days like Yoanis and Co. ended-up in jail, no if buts or maybes, period). You choose to ignore what I’m trying to explain to you and replied with your string of stupid (because that’s what it is, believe me) remarks that bear no resemblance to the history of the Castro regime.

    2. Get it once and for all in your thick fucking skull, the embargo has never been
    fully enforced and implemented by any US administration, that is why it has not
    brought freedom to the Cuban people. And for our local politicians that embarrass you so much, well I have to tell you that these types of politicians exists in other parts of the USA and they’re not of Cuban descent as crooked politicians litter the American landscape (I guess you want to dump on your own kind, to make you feel good an superior to all of us).

    What a fucking moronic Cubano arrepentido you’re (I forgot, you were born here, you’re superior to us), comemierda.

    3. Obama is a Marxist anti-American bullshit artist, period. We suspected this fact during the Presidential campaign by looking at his record, values and his choice of associations and his speeches. Nine months into his Presidency and the steps he has taken during this time has reinforced my views about him. George gave you a short and excellent reply about this fact.

    4. If you think that Fidel Castro has not being a treat to this country for the last fifty years and don’t want to destroy this country I want to see the hole you have been living all this time. Starting from the 1962 missile crisis, to all the revolutions that he sponsored around the world (Angola, Congo, Nicaragua, Bolivia and the rest of Latin America, etc) to his support for drug traffickers and finally he’s reaching his lifelong dream of hurting America with the arrival of his protégé, Hugo Chavez with his billions of petrodollars of support and look what is happening to Latin-America today.

    America’s backyard is in flames today and threatening us and the rest of what is left free in Latin-America in ways that we could have never imagined 20 years ago.

    Keep posting Cardinal, the more you do, the more stupid you look to the rest of us.

  11. Val – you told me not to project what Chirino and Biscet said so I told you where to find what Chirino had to say and literally posted what Biscet said.

    As for my rant, take it for what it’s worth. Most of it is strictly opinion and we just are not going to agree. I have no problem with it. Just call me out where I am wrong and then refute what I say and who knows? I might be convinced by your arguments. Calling me a moron is not going to convince me of anything other than your intolerance for opposing points of view.

  12. Cardinal, you’re being called a moron because you don’t want to see the light, not matter how much we counter your views with strong, valid arguments.

  13. Cardinal,

    Seriously, do you think you have said anything new and that I havent heard in the six years that ive been blogging here?

    Heard it all before, but please do let me know when an original thought crosses your mind.

  14. 1. To be suspicious of someone who is not in jail is understandable. To even be suspicious of someone you hang out with in exile functions here in the US makes sense too, but don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. Some might be with the regime and some not and we will not know till it is all over. To argue about every little thing that gets said by anyone who poses as a dissident will make anyone batty. Even Montaner and Rivero were burned by people they trusted, it has happened before and trust me will happen again. At the end of the day the dissidents, the sycophants and everyone in the middle will decide Cuba’s future not you.

    2. Ok, name three that don’t embarass you. Name one that has accomplished anything. It’s the truth, it sucks but it’s the truth. I know not because I am arrepentido because I have worked with a bunch of them and trust me…they aren’t worth it. To me the closest thing we ever got to a great Cuban-American politician was Jeb Bush (I know he wasn’t Cuban). Mas Canosa was the nearest we ever got to real leader and Montaner is brilliant but there is a dearth of responsible leadership amongst Cuban Americans in office. Our hope is Marco and he is in fact the real deal – but he is one guy.

    3. Obama has not done anything that W didn’t start – did you call him a Marxist? I did not disagree with your contention that he has increased the size exponentially but his healthcare plan (which would be a disaster if enacted) is still not as statist as the original HillaryCare.

    4. you obviously have never studied defense policy or are familiar with US military. you can rest easy tonight. you can not possibly compare the military prowess of the US with the rest of Southern Cone combined. You are out of your mind. Have a convesation about this with anyone at SouthCom and they will bust out laughing in your face. 1962 is 1962 – that FC hates, hated, and will hate US goes without saying – that he will bring down the US is the stupidest thing anyone can possibly say. Should we turn a blind eye to Hugo, no. But don’t build these idiots up to be more than they are.

    Once again let me provide historical perspective. In the 80’s the Cubans were in all their glory, Sandinistas in control, El Salvador teetering on collapse, Panama not friendly Guatemala and Honduras were clinging by a thread. Sendero Luminoso was wrecking havoc, FARC, ELN and the cartels destroying Colombia and the rest of the continent lined up against us except Pinochet. As their sponsor our enemies had the other superpower whose objective was to dominate the world. That was bad.

  15. oops forgot to mention the embargo. newsflash – unless Cuba does something really, really stupid like blow up building in Brickell the embargo will never be fully enforced. What the hell does fully enforced mean anyway? From ’62 till the late ’70’s it was pretty tight. The only reason it didn’t work is simple. there are two ways that people can most easily express their displeasure with a government – with the ballot box or with their feet. The first option is closed in Cuba and option two has been excercised consistently. When things get tight Fidel lets people out – these people then toss a life line to those stuck at home. Blame the embargo all you want but the Cuban economy stays afloat because Cubans keep it going. Not Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, Bush II or Obama, the Dem Congress, the Rep Congress or the split Congress – it is your neighbors that keep things running in Castro’s Cuba. If you want to blame someone blame them.

  16. Cardinal,

    Your argument is like Swish cheese, full of holes.

    1. Cuban dissidents won’t decide Cuba’s future. Not enough of them and not enough of them with enough courage to stand up to the tyranny. The people that could have freed Cuba are long dead, this new generations are part of that system (as they grew in it) and don’t have what it takes to win freedom.

    2. Corrupted politicians are all over the USA, believe me you don’t have to live in Dade-County to find them. They’re in every state of this nation, every community. Stop painting your own kind as they’re the only corrupted politicians in the nation, that extremely stupid for you to say (and a little bigoted against your own people I may add).

    3. Obama is an anti-American bullshit artist and at the rate he’s going God only knows were we’ll end up. Comparing him to W. is not very smart regardless of W’s flaws. Is like comparing apple to oranges.

    4. Fidel Castro and Hugo Chavez are taking over Latin-America while this country with all the military might you claim is doing nothing to stop them, that spells trouble. These idiots are far more dangerous that you’re willing or able to acknowledge. The truth is that this idiots won’t have to attack the USA to cause us harm when today they have an accomplice in the oval office and in the State Department (look what is happening to Honduras now). They’re winning without even firing a shot at us.

    By the way our military is so thinly stretched that we cannot finish the job in Iraq and Afghanistan (Bill Clinton weakened our armed forces plenty during his tenure). What makes you think that we can handle what is happening south of our borders at the same time?

    There is only one reason that the treat from the South was averted in the eighties and that reason was Ronald Wilson Reagan that supported the Salvadorean military and the Nicaraguan contras (plus kicking Cuban forces out of Granada).

    5. Enforce the embargo, stop the traveling to Cuba, the remittances and the rest of the “relajo” that is taking place these days with Cuba and you’ll see the pressure cooker blow-up.

  17. 1. The Czechs, East Germans and Romanians grew up in the system too. They found a way to stand up and change the system. So stop making excuses.

    2. That there is corruption every place else is no small comfort but this is not just about corruption. Some of the people I worked for weren’t even corrupt, just inept and that I found to be just as bad.

    3. My comparison to W was that he set the table and Obama is eating off it. Every single step he has taken to address the financial crisis has a natural antecedent in the W admin.

    4. How are they winning and what are they winning. Our forces are stretched to the point that they cannot secure and hold real estate outside of the theaters where they are engaged – however they have sufficient deterrent force to stare down almost any adversary on the planet. There is not a force in the southern cone that could project itself too far beyond its borders to even contenance the thought that they pose a threat to the US is either irresponsible or ill-informed (I’m being polite).

    5. Put down that crack pipe because it is almost impossible to imagine any scenario in which the embargo will be enforced to your satisfaction. It is unrealistic. Name one national figure in the US that even has the glimmer of a hope of ascending the White House that even entertains the notion. It is not going to happen – it does not make sense for the US to expend political capital on an island of just over 11 million people of no importance to anyone except us. It just isn’t worth the agravation. And that is why Obama and many Dems just want to drop the embargo so they can stop all the annoying catcalls about the US beating up on it’s puny neighbor.

  18. Cardinal, you appear to be an intelligent fellow. Not that you are, mind you, you just appear to be. Blaming W for our current financial woes is like blaming Benjamin Harrison for World War I. As someone who was in the industry for eighteen years, and saw first hand the roots of our current troubles, you may want to read a liitle more about our before making asinine and clearly uninformed statements.

  19. Well, W positively shares at least SOME of the blame, if only for the unassailable fact that W nominated the bubblemeister Greenspan to serve for an unprecedented fifth term as chairman of the Federal Reserve in 2004. (Hell, W even gave Greenspan the Presidential Medal of Freedom in 2005.)

    And don’t mistakenly confuse this as / or try to discredit me by saying this is a ‘liberal’ rant, because quite a number of conservative commentators (e.g. Thomas Sowell) are blaming Greenspan for making a terrible mess of things.

  20. A little touchy are we, Buzz? I wholeheartedly agree with you on Greenspan. I’ll never understand how he went from being a Randian to what he became at the Fed. W was only the second to last President to exacerbate the problems started in 1964 with the Great Society. If you want to blame someone, put it straight on LBJ and the Dem Congresses that followed him.

  21. Cardinal,

    1. I’m not making excuses. What do you want me to tell you that the Cuban people don’t have the ball to stand-up to the Castro brothers?

    We all know that, it does not take a nuclear scientist to figure that one out and it displays how much the 50 years indoctrination of the Cuban population by the regime has destroyed their will and values to stand-up for their freedoms.

    2. Corrupt and inept politicians are all over the United States political arena (not only on the Dade-County area).

    Don’t be so hard on yourself, is not worth it. It’ll give you ulcers and a heart attack.

    3. Barack Hussein Obama is a freaking Marxist anti-American bullshit artist, get it into your thick fucking skull once and for all, and wake up to the freaking reality that we’re living (and you say that I’m the one on the crack pipe, please…give me a fucking break).

    4. How many times I have to repeat to you that Hugo Chavez and Fidel Castro are taking over all over Latin America because we’re doing freaking nothing to stop them?

    And the funny part of this dramatic soap opera is that no guerrilla warfare (like in Che Chevara’s days)is taking place today. They’re beating us without taking a shot at us.

    Por favor, no seas than comemierda de no querer ver la realidad. Come on, you’re smarter than that (at least I hope you’re).

    5. So what other alternative are you freaking proposing?

    That we drop our values and principles and give Fidel and Raul Castro whatever they’re fucking asking for, because they certainly won’t make a single fucking concession to us or the Cuban people (shit, look what is happening now).

    Don’t worry, be happy (lo bueno de esto es lo malo que esto se esta poniendo).

    The more Barack Hussein Obama fucks-up the good old USA, the more chances are that someone will raise to stand-up to his Marxist policies. Don’t worry so much now who that person is going to be now, it will become apparent at the right time.

    Great Americans leaders raise out of great challenges.

  22. Very important correction I may add,

    Great American leaders rise out of great challenges.

    That’s why America is so blessed because the blood of all it’s heroes buried in foreign lands (as they died fighting for other people’s freedoms) earned those blessing rights for America in the eyes of the all mighty Lord God.

  23. Just going to respond to George for now. – I was laying the blame on W for his response to the crisis not the actual crisis itself. I think there is plenty of blame to go around for that one – it was the perfect storm.

    I just felt that a little gov’t intervention was like getting a little pregnant. It was going to difficult to stop once we had made the first move. You know the Dems would just expand on that.

    I’m bitter at W for a whole slew of things but not the crisis.

  24. 1. We agree to an extent and if they don’t have the balls to lose their chains themselves then why should we bother? Help those that stand up and suffer due to their beliefs there but honestly – 99.9% of the people there aren’t worth it.

    2. All I ask you is this – name one single legislative accomplishment of our Cuban-American Delegation. LDB sits on the most important committee in the House and he has squat to show for it. Great constituent services does not make for great congressmen.

    3. He is a leftist who loves his vision of America – which quite frankly is not America but he isn’t a Marxist. I can name at least 20 Dems off the top of my head that are more to the left than him.

    4. Fidel can’t even control his own bowel movements much less a continent. Don’t buy into Hugo’s PR. Everytime he rattles his saber and threatens to use his military he backs down. That is not to say that he is not a peripheral threat. Where Obama needs to put on his pants is Iranian and Russian interference in the hemisphere. Left to his own devices Hugo will fail – given assistance he becomes a much greater nuisance and a destabilizing force – but not one that threatens our democracy.

    5. Here is the truth – in the geopolitical realm, Cuba is but a speck. Treat it as such. Madagascar, Mali and Malawi are all bigger than Cuba – does anyone even know what the hell is going on any of these places? Does anyone care? Only reason anyone pays any attention to the embargo is that they see a big bully beating up on its tiny neighbor. True, what they should see is a bully state beating up on its people but it is so much easier to bash the US. The embargo is not going to bring down Castro Inc. but it is all we argue about. I want to shift the argument to something else. It is not worth fighting over a policy that is ultimately not going to meet our desired ends. I say this as someone that went to the Hill at least twice (on my own) to lobby FOR the embargo. I personally can’t stomach anyone that does business with Cuba but thats my problem, I will have to deal with it.

  25. theCardinal,

    I understand your points about the usefulness (or lack thereof) of the embargo. Please allow me to ask you this: What policies, if any, would you be in favor of implementing and/or enforcing in order to help bring about change in Cuba? If there are none, is the embargo still useful from a standpoint of principle?

    This is an honest question and by no means is this some sort of trap.

  26. Cardinal,

    I truly feel sorry for you as it bewilders me that fact you still don’t want to see that Barack Hussein Obama is an anti-American Marxist regarding the overwhelming evidence shown by his actions during the last ten months into his presidency.

    You don’t want to admit and accept that even a bedridden and cagalitroso Fidel Castro has been able to achieve in the twilight of his life what he could not in the previous 50 years because his adopted son Hugo Chavez is taking over Latin-America with his petrodollars and without taking a shot and becoming a treat to America in the process.

    And now he wants to get nukes with Iranian help. What do you think he wants to do that?

    To finish the job that his adopted father Fidel Castro could not accomplish in 1962.

    Barack Obama is doing nothing meaningful to stand-up to Russia and Iran’s nuclear treat and support for terrorism in the Middle East and what makes you freaking think that he’ll do anything regarding these two countries interference in Latin America?

    Please dude, don’t be so freaking naïve, wake up. You are proving George and Val’s right.

    Finally Fidel Castro with his grandiose dreams to confront the USA embarked a small tiny island like Cuba into a costly military enterprise (that helped bankrupt the former Soviet Union) since the early sixties that has cost America billions of dollars and enormous headaches to counter.

    The fact that the former Soviet Union (and even Russia today) went along with this game speaks volumes of how important this treat was and still is to us. For anyone to ignore and downplay this treat is utterly naïve, imbecilic and ridiculous to say at very least.

    You keep talking about the embargo that was never fully enforced (that’s why it has not achieved the liberation of Cuba, period) and yet you continue to talk about other methods when you know better that there is no other methods to bring down the Castro brothers tyranny other than to tight the screw at them, so please stop the bullshit about the embargo.

  27. Fidel was much closer to achieving his dream in the late ’70’s early ’80’s with his Soviet sponsor than he is now. Chavez’s economic model is unsustainable and built on a house of cards. He acts like a man in a hurry, because he is. His grand scheme is built on shifting sand – I would prefer for us to push it so it can collapse on itself but it will fall no matter what.

    The embargo will never be enforced to the extent you want it to be – it is not worth the US’ effort and the rest of the world does not care. Stop talking about it because it will never happen in this lifetime. You have more of a chance of winning the Powerball six weeks in a row than seeing that happen. It’s a football saturday so this is all I can say.

  28. “Fidel was much closer to achieving his dream in the late ’70’s early ’80’s with his Soviet sponsor than he is now Fidel was much closer to achieving his dream in the late ’70’s early ’80’s with his Soviet sponsor than he is now”

    “Chavez’s economic model is unsustainable and built on a house of cards”

    “I would prefer for us to push it so it can collapse on itself but it will fall no matter what.”

    Come on Cardinal, how can you make such statements and ignore what is so obvious?

    Cuba’s economic model has been unsustainable for the last fifty years and the Castro dynasty is still in power as they always find a new sponsor to maintain their oppression on the Cuban people (first the old Soviet Union and now Hugo Chavez and the Cuban exile community).

    How many US Presidents and politicians that thought that the Castro brothers would fall under the weight of their own unsustainable policies have come and go since 1959?

    Please, come on, how can you make such a naïve statement? Right there your argument defeats itself.

    Tying the screws on the Castro brothers is the only solution to bring change there, the rest is horseshit. Look what happened in South Africa.

    Just because all this relajo that is taking place in this country because of the Obama’s administration policies towards Cuba it does not mean that they would not be reversed in the future by someone else.

    Sooner or later Barack Hussein Obama and the liberals will be totally discredited in the eyes of the American people as the consequences of his failed domestic and international policies will harm America and bring a conservative, real American values revival to our country and a reversal of most of his current policies (including his Cuba policy too), I’m convinced about this fact.

    Keep wet dreaming thinking that Chavez will fall by itself under the weight of its own failings, as Cuba’s security apparatus will keep him in power indefinitely (the rest is horseshit). Fidel and Raul Castro have too much invested in him and cannot afford to lose him at this juncture.

    Let me put it crystal clear to you, unless the Venezuelan people and elements of the Venezuelan military revolt (and I mean, not the bullshit demonstrations that are taking place there now), you’ll see Hugo Chavez in power in Venezuela for the next fifty years and most of Latin America under his control, it is that simple.

    Lo demas es comer de lo que pica el pollo.

  29. you are living in a world of fantasy. you obviously don’t know anyone outside of Miami. People do not care about the embargo. I meet conservative Republicans who ask me how it is that they can get to Cuba (I tell them I don’t know). The American people may turn most if not all of Obama’s policies (we can only hope) but recall that George W. did as much as he could for us and even he did not go to the lengths you wanted. Ronnie loved us and he did not go to the lengths you wanted. Unless Castro blows up Miami with a nuclear device it just will not happen ever.

    Here is a little history lesson – since you can’t be bothered to read up on anything other than the talking points spewed here. There is a big difference between South Africa and Cuba. The government of South Africa was sensitive to economic pressures because it had a limited democracy and an open economy. Sanctions (not an embargo) from the US and UK was enough to open up the system because the US and UK were heavily invested in the RSA. So by your logic the way we can make the embargo work is to invest so heavily in Cuba so that they depend on our every penny then we can cut them off.

    Oh, by the way the difference between sanctions and embargo is this – the only legislation that the US was able to pass was a law forbidding “new” investment. In other words all prior arrangements were recognized. So it was in fact something much weaker than what we have in place now with Cuba. I hope this helps. Look it up…trust me it’s all online.

  30. “you are living in a world of fantasy. you obviously don’t know anyone outside of Miami”

    Hah, hah, hah…

    Cardinal,

    I lived outside Miami in the North for fifteen years of my life don’t talk so much crap.

    I know very well the mentality of the American people outside of South Florida. I know it much better than you do because I lived it and I still stand by my arguments.

    I gave you enough evidence to destroy your arguments and you still coming back with your naive points. The fact that you think that Hugo Chavez will fall by the errors of his own policies is laughable at best and displays how little you understand the inner workings of the Cuban and Venezuelan Marxist regimes and the societies they build.

    No wonder why you cannot understand the fact that our current President is a Marxist, as you never lived in the belly of the beast.

    If anyone is responsible for the American people’s misinformation about Cuba is none other than the MSM and we’ll know that. Even conservative networks like Fox News spend very little time portraying the Cuban reality. No wonder some conservative Republicans would like to travel to Cuba.

    By the way I don’t know who these conservative Republicans you claim are for all I care they could be RINOs. All I can tell you that real conservative Republicans don’t see eye to eye with the Castro’s tyranny, the others are fake Republicans (there are many of those in the political arena today, no wonder the Party is the minority in Congress).

    If anything I have forgotten more about history that your ever have (and ever will) learn in your whole life. Actually history is one of my favorites topics so don’t talk what you don’t know.

    And I don’t take my history from talking point here. No hables tanta mierda por favor, think before you write.

    You have a knack for assuming things about people that you don’t have the slightest clue about when you arguments are being debunked by others.

    Definitively George and Val are right about you.

  31. Evidence of what? Marxist regimss have fallen all over the world yet somehow Hugo Chavez is the evil genius who can solve the great puzzle and create a self-sustaining regime. You can’t think this guy is an idiot and a genius all at once.

    The Republicans I speak of are mostly those that want to make a buck – thus my advice to them to stay away. Many of states that would “benefit” most from an end to the embargo are Republican leaning. The only thing that Tip O’Neil ever got right in always saying is that all politics is local…so give it up the embargo is not going to be enforced how you want. In what planet, under what scenario could you possibly envision that happening?

    I notice that when I mention specifics you tend to get emotional. I told you the difference between RSA sanctions and Cuba and you ignored that totally. I mention the economic incongruities of the Chavista system and you spout something about Marxist regimes as if they can somehow flout economic reality for all eternity. I asked you to name one, just one single solitary legislative accomplishment of the holy trinity of Cuban-American Pols in their combined 42 years (!) in the House and I am still waiting.

  32. Robert, in all the vitriol I failed to see your comment. I admit to not having answers or even specific ones. My goal as I mentioned ultimately is encouraging a transition of sorts that is obviously not going to begin until the current generation in charge dies off.

    I think the error that we made is that we all believed that there would be a “poof” moment in Cuba – when one day to the next the system would change. More than half of Cuba’s existence as an “independent” nation has now been under communist rule and to expect that “poof” now seems naive.

    I would want the US and Cuba to engage in a series of discussion with small concessions calibrated on verifiable Cuban actions. I honestly would not even begin discussions until those Cubans with US visas but no exit permits are allowed to leave. Perhaps the return of fugitives for a minor trade concessions. To unilaterally remove the embargo would be a mistake and foolish. We would AT LEAST require compensation for nationalized properties.

    The human rights issue is difficult. Let’s be honest – if we demand that dissidents be released in exchange for the embargo there are two problems A) they can be percieved as gringo pawns and more importantly b) as soon as trade starts Cuba will just lock them up again. If we bargain for a free press who would really believe that Cuba would honor that?

    I do believe that at first when the money starts to roll in that Cuba in fact will become a more repressive place. The fear of change will freak the regime and the new revenue will allow them the means to clamp down. Eventually though I envision a transition more along the lines of South Korea taking place. Until there is a middle class not beholden to the regime will the people shake things up. The Commmies in China were able to hold on due to their size and inability of outsiders to influence China itself. Cuba, a much smaller place, will be easier to make its way to a more liberal democratic society.

    I would continue however support of dissidents throughout the process and would want the CAA of 66 rescinded. The CAA has done more than anything else to maintain the stability of the regime.

  33. There you go again Cardinal,

    The Soviet Union and the Eastern block fell and Castro still holds on to Cuba that’s enough evidence of Castro’s ability to survive and how much of a treat he still is to us.

    Never underestimate someone like Fidel Castro (even in the condition he’s today). Dictators like him guys hold on to power for so long because they are not stupid.

    Yes Fidel Castro and Hugo Chavez are two idiots when it comes to running their respective countries economies into the ground and yet they’re geniuses when it comes to hold on to power to oppress their people and to spread their ideology throughout Latin America. I know it is ironic but it is what it is and you’re failing to see this fact.

    You talk about technicalities regarding the differences between what happened in South Africa and the Cuban embargo. I like to go to the bottom line and that bottom line to me is the fact that the effective pressure on the South African regime by the whole international community along with sanctions brought change in South Africa. If that pressure was applied by the international community plus a fully enforced embargo (another form of sanctions no matter how you call it) on Cuba you would see change there, that simple.

    You may want to attack the holy trinity of Cuban-American Pols we have here as a further proof of how much you loathe your own kind and try to excuse that they have not accomplished anything in their tenure in office by not passing any meaningful legislation. If the holy trinity of Cuban-American Pols would not have done the job for this community they would not have been reelected to office.

    Honestly I have nothing against them (but you do) even if they would not passed a significant piece of legislation.

    So was your freaking point?

    I would say thought that if it wasn’t for that the holy trinity of Cuban-American Pols in Congress that you love to put down so much (there you go again attacking your own kind), Fidel and Raul Castro would be walking Calle Ocho today having a cafecito at the local shops as an insult to all of us.

    Hey, if you think that you can do better why don’t you run for office and stop talking so much trash about them, see if you can do any better (though I highly doubt it).

    “I notice that when I mention specifics you tend to get emotional”

    Well, you think that you have good specifics and think that you know better than us and at the end you end up looking like a fool with your arguments.

  34. One last thing Cardinal,

    In your post to Robert you look like you would like to engage in some sort of negotiations with the Castro regime.

    Do you really actually think that you could accomplish anything engaging that regime?

    Please…come on…you sound like the CANF…

  35. Effective pressures brought down the apartheid regime because of the nature of the regime. It was not a completely closed society. When the people that were invested in the system began to doubt the system it was only natural it would crumble. Cuba’s regime, as we all know, is not swayed by public opinion. There is no guarantee that even a complete blockade would effectively bring the system down. In the past 50 years we have not gone to the lengths that you want – what makes you believe that something is going to suddenly change the minds of the world community. A massacre in Tiananmen Square did not stop the world from trading with China. Genocide in Sudan has not brought effective action there. Building an A-Bomb and stealing an election hasn’t hurt Iran yet either. What is going to make the world stand up and say “You know what Castro is a really bad guy so we shouldn’t trade with him.” Iran wants to blow a whole country off the map and the world fiddles – why in the name of all that is holy would they ever care about a piss ant island in the Caribbean?

    I don’t have anything against all Cuban-American pols – just most of them. The Holy Trinity are good at what they do – getting elected – and little else. The demagogue every issue to death and have great constituent services. the electorate is just as bad as the pols. need i even mention that the only reason that Raul Martinez is not mayor anymore is because he actually quit. The man could have been elected in perpetuity. Joe Carollo, Tomasito Regalado, Humberto Hernandez, etc. There are some honorable people Marco is one of the best. Javier Souto is practically a saint, Gimenez is arrogant but clean and well meaning, Manny Diaz gets a bad rap but honestly cares. Lopez-Cantera and Anitere are good people also. We have some good ones but a whole lot of crappy ones.

    I think our political clout in SoFla and NJ would have kept the embargo in place regardless of the three. Remember that it wasn’t even them who codified the embargo into law it Jesse Helms and Dan Burton. The first step was Torricelli – so even in the most critical pieces of legislation on their signature issues they did squat.

    Read my comment to Robert closely, you will note that expect very little in tangible results in any conversation with the current regime. I honestly don’t think that even with engagement that it will take a long while before even the semblance of freedom will be found in Cuba.

  36. Cardinal there you go again, you’re becoming annoying,

    Dude get it into your thick, freaking skull if the embargo on Cuba would be applied properly the pressure cooker there would have exploded long time ago. Take a look at what happened in 1994 during “El Periodo Especial” (an opportunity which Bill Clinton totally dropped the ball on).

    The people there were desperate and willing to revolt because of the hardships encountered because of losing the Soviet Union subsidies and the embargo working at the same time (imagine a more leak proof embargo what could have accomplished).

    There, this is the perfect proof that you are totally wrong in your attacks against the embargo.

    As painful as it is the only way that the people in Cuba will finally rebel in mass against the tyranny is if they’re backed against the wall by the pressure of an effective embargo and sanctions, nothing else, the rest is bullshit

    “I don’t have anything against all Cuban-American pols – just most of them”

    Most of them are close enough to me to think that you have it against your own kind.

    Come on, you have it against the Holy-Trinity (Raul Martinez doesn’t count, he’s a totally crooked buffoon) and the others that you like don’t have a chance snowball chance in Hell to make it to the national scene even if they tried (with the possible exception of Marco Rubio who is appealing enough). The other ones that you like are only good for local politics, and you know it.

    And please don’t defend Manny Diaz as I experienced first hand how full of shit he is years ago during a community event. Don’t even let me mention his support for Hillary Clinton (should I remind you Elian Gonzalez?) and Barack Obama as further proof of my disgust for him.

    You are dumping at the Hialeah Cuban-Americans because of their support for Raul Martinez and you fail to see what the people of DC did for former Major Barry or Major Nagin getting reelected in New Orleans.

    Attacking your own people makes you look stupid, as corrupted politicians exist in many other areas in America and different ethnic groups.

    You make it sound that Cuban-American politicians are the only corrupted ones in the nation, please stop it.

    And stop thinking that our clout would have prevailed. Our cloud is having politicians like the Holy-Trinity in Congress fighting for support against the Castro tyranny even if they don’t pass significant pieces of legislation, as you would like. Accept it for what it is and stop wining because you’re not going to get any cheese with it.

    The embargo would have been repealed a while back (probably during the Clinton administration) if it wasn’t for the Diaz-Balards, Ross-Letinnen and also Bob Menendez (even thought I don’t like him much at least at I give him that much credit) trying to rally support in Congress to keep the pressure on the Castro tyranny. And I applaud their efforts even if you don’t want to give them any credit, that’s your issue and not mine’s and honestly I don’t want to hear any more of this bullshit coming from you as is getting played out, keep it to yourself.

    You’re so freaking full of contradictions (no wonder George and Val call you names); on one hand you attack the embargo as ineffective and on the other you acknowledge that there will be no positive outcome of engagement with the tyranny.

    So what the fuck you want? Te peinas o te haces papelillos? At least I know what I want.

    Cardinal, honestly take it for what is worth, it is obvious that you were born here in America because if you have lived under the Castro tyranny (especially during the period from 1959 to the 1970s) you would understand much better what goes on there, how the machinery of that regime works and how much of a threat it has always been to America and the rest of Latin-America and would not be wasting so much freaking time foolishly debating some of the issues you have so far.

  37. a) if Dan Marino would have had Barry Sims in the backfield he would have had a Super Bowl ring. If a) Chiang Kai-Shek would have killed Mao when he had him surrounded his solitary death would have saved the lives of over 70 million Chinese. Alternative history is a fun parlor game but that is what it is…a game. I hate to shout but…. THE EMBARGO WILL NEVER, EVER, EVER BE ENFORCED HOW YOU WANT IN THIS LIFETIME. Why bother discussing something that has not happened in 50 years and is not going to happen in 50 years. IT WILL NOT BE ENFORCED. Let it go…not the embargo necessarily but just the discussion that hopefully one day it will be enforced.

    b) what the hell was Bill Clinton supposed to do during el Maleconazo? Seriously by the time he knew it happened it was over. Your telling me that the country that watched as tanks rolled over students that had been sitting in the largest public square in the world was going to do something about a simple protest that lasted a blink of an eye? You think either Bush would have done anything more than say a bunch of pretty words and hoped the matter would disappear. This is not America’s fight it is Cuba’s and if they don’t win it, America is not going to sacrifice its young for their liberty. They will sacrifice in Iraq and Afghanistan because they believe that our safety, security and national interest are at stake. They ignore internal Cuban politics because it means nothing in the grand scheme of things.

    c) The embargo could not be stopped by the three stooges since in the House a simple majority is all that is needed. As I said before Helms-Burton codified the embargo…that is what saved the embargo not the three stooges. Once again read your history…or at least remember it. Every single act that has specifically helped Cuban Americans has been pushed by a gringo. 3 moronos in place for 42 years and still waiting for something worthwhile.

    d) the pols i mentioned were just good ones not those that I expect to aspire to anything greater. i disagree a great deal with Manny he is too far to the left on a number of issues but he is not as horrible as you might think. You have no idea how he was personally affected by the Elian situation – he is not one to get all weepy and grant “heart on sleeve” interviews but many relationships were shattered. At the end of the day however, he is a Democrat and that sucks but it’s not a sin.

    e) I hold my kind to a higher standard – if you want to compare us to the geniuses that vote for Barry then so be it. I try to look up, not done. We shouldn’t be satisfied with pols that aren’t as crooked as those in N.J. or D.C. We should set an example not only as minorities but also to the people of Cuba. The system will never be perfect but we must aspire to perfection – to show what the blessings of liberty can do to a community.

    f) The embargo is overrated by both proponents and opponents. What I hope is for a gradual openning of the system. Cut deals that put the onus on the regime. Right now the US is portrayed as the bad guys – the focus is on us not on the repressive regime. Get what you can from Cuba (again only verifiable concessions) and make them the issue. At the same time slice off the CAA spigot. Make it clear to the Cubans that if they want a better life that it will have to be in Cuba – not in the US.

  38. “Cut deals that put the onus on the regime. ”

    BURRRRP….BURRRRP…BURRRRP.

    Real bright and moronic idea:

    Cut a deal with the Devil.

    Fucking Brilliant!

    What did I not think of that?

    What a freaking genious!

    BURRRRP….BURRRRP…BURRRRP

    Now we have another dialogero running rampant at Babalu.

    BURRRRP….BURRRRP…BURRRRP

  39. ahhhh…yes, the enlightened discussion just gets better. no wonder we get slandered as simpletons. there’s a whole bunch of words involved but I qualified a great deal of what i said could be dealt and with who. in addition i do believe that an deal with Cuba will definitely lead to more repression initially. So easy to brush all your opponents with a broad brush… geez i wonder where you all learned that from?

  40. It does not get more simpleton than making an extremely stupid statement like the one below:

    “Cut deals that put the onus on the regime. ”

    Like if Fidel and Raul Castro would be so fucking stupid to fall for that trap.

    Who do you think that you’re dealing with?

    And you think they would hold their end of the bargain to any agreement with them, how freaking and naively foolish.

    You would be making the concessions to them and they would be spitting at you face in return.

    You definitely don’t know that pair, not even close.

  41. Deals that could be verified –

    a) allow everyone with a US Visa an exit visa – if they don’t let anyone out we give nothing.

    b) compensation for nationalized properties – if they give nothing then we don’t give nothing.

    c) they turn over fugitives – if they don’t give them up then we don’t give nothing

    Freedom stop being Val’s bitch…you and I already went thru this at least six or eight comments ago but since you can’t stand up on your own you had to regurgitate what he said. you know that I said that dealing with current regime and expecting any positive change was not going to happen. you know that I had never asked for concessions from us until they made the initial step. but so you look good to your boy Val you forget all that and literally repeat everything he says. No respect for you at all. Grow up and grow a brain.

  42. I also said that negotiating human rights issues was a waste since we know they would not respect that. Whatever… you all don’t care. All you are is the remnant some little dwindling force that feel that if you shout long enough and scream higher than everyone that you will convince them. Somehow if all find your own little place in the web and convince each other that everyone you know thinks the same thing…then it must be true! Challenge your beliefs and defend them. Make them stronger with interaction…not knee jerk and fearful.

  43. Cardinal, stop being so stupid, I given you plenty and you still come back with more stupidity.

    To finish once and for all your stupidity:

    A) You will get nothing.
    B) You will get nothing
    C) You will get nothing

    And them what would you do after you realize you got nothing?

    Lucir como un comermierda?

    Your arguments are totally unachievable and you still keep insisting on them.

    Oh yeah because you say I’m not standing on my own I’m going to take your word for it, que comemierda eres.

    I debunk everything you send and you come back with more foolishness.

    You think that the people in this blog are not reading it?

    Dude you’re beyond help, go cool-off, take a trip to DisneyWorld to the land of make believe (were you belong). It’ll do you wonders.

  44. Cardinal one last thing in reply to your personal remark,

    Kiss my Cuban ass, have more brains that you’ll ever have in your whole life and could care less about the respect of assholes with a superiority complex like you.

  45. Cardinal,

    You need to leave me out of this as I have purposely stayed out of this absurd conversation.

    You have expressed yourself here with quite a bit of hubris and a lot of bs.

    Moreover, youre arguments arent anything new. Every single thing you have mentioned has been said here before. I have fifty years of proof that aver that the regime will give no quarter or concession on anything, be it fugitives, stolen property, dissidents, political prisoners…anything.

    Now, you can go ahead and contact whatever ministry you want in Cuba, tell them you are a concerned Cuban living the US and that you want to help ease communication and foment dialogue between us and them. Then tell them your stipulations and see how far you get.

    Nobody here is forcing to agree to anything you dont agree with, they are merely pointing out the fact that unicorns dont exist.

    Comments on this thread are now closed. Por que me sale a mi de los cojones.

Comments are closed.